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translation is dead as a profession | Two years later...

Denis Danchenko (X) — Mon, 10 Jun 2024 22:41:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Denis Danchenko (X)
Post title: Two years later...

MT still looks hopeless even on the plain stuff I routinely work with, while one of those 'language tech pioneers' skips town. "It just felt like Randall Raines." (Gone in 60 Seconds)

[Edited at 2024-06-10 22:53 GMT]

translation is dead as a profession | Translators/Interpreters among the top "impacted"

Gregory Thomas (X) — Sat, 20 Jan 2024 19:35:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Gregory Thomas (X)
Post title: Translators/Interpreters among the top "impacted"

[quote]Stephen Emm wrote:
Your personal experience in very niche area does not really say much about the industry as a whole.
[/quote]

Agree. Even without AI, we have over-leveraged TMs and MT.
AI will only make things a lot worse within the next few months. In these forums some part-timers will say that typewriters are not dead, because someone somewhere sold one on ebay two weeks ago. People here love to argue as if they are lawyer-bots trying to find niche exceptions. Some translators will still have work for max 1-2 years more than others (certain project managers and team "cliques" in large agencies like them personally), and will take whatever is left.
The attached is only one of many. Other graphs list "Translators/Interpreters" as in the No. 1 category impacted.
Many accountants in the US saw this automation trend years ago. So they raised their prices to create a nest egg and re-purpose their offices before the inevitable. Translators did not.

translation is dead as a profession | Don't....

Lieven Malaise — Sat, 20 Jan 2024 11:32:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Lieven Malaise
Post title: Don't....

[quote]Quentin NEVEN wrote:

I just started two weeks ago as a translator.

I love this lifestyle, I love to translate, I love working that way... But I won't lie, seeing this thread has left me quite discouraged.

That being said, I will do whatever I can to make it work. [/quote]

...let people on this website discourage you. As I mentioned before I'm glad I only learnt to know Proz 4 years ago, and not when I just started. It's full of discouraged people, either because they refuse or don't know how to adapt or because they don't know how to run a business. Or simply can't make it work because they are not good enough.

If you have what it takes, you will succeed.

translation is dead as a profession | Ouch

Quentin NEVEN — Sat, 20 Jan 2024 11:12:00 +0000

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Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Quentin NEVEN
Post title: Ouch

I just started two weeks ago as a translator.

I love this lifestyle, I love to translate, I love working that way... But I won't lie, seeing this thread has left me quite discouraged.

That being said, I will do whatever I can to make it work.

translation is dead as a profession | It's unattractive

Juan Pablo Sans — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 23:24:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Juan Pablo Sans
Post title: It's unattractive

It still is unattractive.

translation is dead as a profession | What about the wider picture?

Stephen Emm — Sat, 02 Sep 2023 17:10:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Stephen Emm
Post title: What about the wider picture?

[quote]Kay Denney wrote:

Translation is not dead. Right now I'm working on a beautiful text about a wind quintet, advertising its new repertoire to festivals for next year. It's poetic yet precise, lyrical and alluring, and the challenge is to produce a text to match its beauty despite translating into pragmatic English out of poetic French. My niche is safe from MT and AI, at least until I retire (French government just added another couple of years for me, but I reckon I'm still good). [/quote]

Sounds like you are translating interesting material, but you do realise that the bulk of the material that translated does not involve translating poetic or literary texts?

I would imagine that these sort of texts are one of the areas that remain the most resistant to the incursion of MT and AI - but for those translators translating in more "bread and butter" areas such as technical manuals, contracts, business correspondance, etc. the outlook is not very good.

Your personal experience in very niche area does not really say much about the industry as a whole.

translation is dead as a profession | Same as me

Stephen Emm — Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:49:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Stephen Emm
Post title: Same as me

[quote]Ice Scream wrote:

[quote]Stephen Emm wrote:
I think there a very few in-house translation jobs in the UK now and in-house jobs are not brilliantly paid.

I also very much doubt that the average freelance translator earns much more than the figure you give
[/quote]
I started as an in-house translator in the UK in 1993 on £15,000.

With inflation, that’s £40,000 (46,000 euros) today.

No way junior in-house translators are paid that now.
[/quote]

Interesting- I also started as an in-house translator, but in 2001 yet my starting salary was still £15,000.

Even a senior in-house translator would not be earning £40,000 today.

translation is dead as a profession | Failure in my book

IrinaN (X) — Wed, 16 Aug 2023 18:02:00 +0000

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Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: IrinaN (X)
Post title: Failure in my book

Means one thing only - a chosen profession no longer puts bread on the table. For whatever reason...

translation is dead as a profession | End

Susanna Martoni — Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:54:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Susanna Martoni
Post title: End

Nice.
So, nobody will discuss about translation death, it is not an overall concern and it is not important for everybody (are we sure?).

Should somebody feel inferior or "out of something" because things are not exacly going where we expect?

translation is dead as a profession | Which...

Dan Lucas — Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:46:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Dan Lucas
Post title: Which...

[quote]Tom in London wrote:
Will the "translation is dead as a profession" thread ever die ?[/quote]
Which will die first - this thread or the profession?
Place your bets, ladies and gents..

Dan

translation is dead as a profession | Will the "translation is dead as a profession" thread ever die ?

Tom in London — Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:36:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Will the "translation is dead as a profession" thread ever die ?

Will the "translation is dead as a profession" thread ever die ?

[Edited at 2023-08-13 11:37 GMT]

translation is dead as a profession |

Jeff Whittaker — Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:15:00 +0000

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Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Jeff Whittaker
Post title:

[Edited at 2023-08-11 19:27 GMT]

translation is dead as a profession | Giving up is still not an option

Nicoletta Micheli — Thu, 10 Aug 2023 10:23:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Nicoletta Micheli
Post title: Giving up is still not an option

True, workflow is irregular and all, but at the same time I am still earning more than most jobs in my area: I would not venture into the world and start working away from home (with all the expenses and stress) until this job makes me earn less than 1.000 EUR (after tax) a month.

translation is dead as a profession | My pinch of salt

Jean-Christophe Duc — Thu, 10 Aug 2023 09:46:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Jean-Christophe Duc
Post title: My pinch of salt

A thread that runs over two years, impressive!
Every new technology appears to be received with suspicion, and a healthy does of scepticism is always a good thing.
However, we also need to adapt.
If we re-read the posts of about 10+ years ago, you would find a lot of angry messages against PE, that it would be the end of translation as we know it. We now know the situation is a lot more nuanced.
Nobody quite knows what AI will bring: regression, evolution or revolution?

translation is dead as a profession | I don't know/I’m confused

Susanna Martoni — Wed, 09 Aug 2023 10:32:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Susanna Martoni
Post title: I don't know/I’m confused

[quote]Dan Lucas wrote:

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:
It may not be the 'worst of us' that end up leaving the profession first. I'm seeing a lot of highly specialised translators moving into different fields because they have other options - they have taken specialisation to a level where they can work in a different role in their specialist field - and they have no interest in doing badly paid MTPE jobs.[/quote]
This is a persuasive point. How do people become highly specialised and (presumably) successful? Through having confidence, a strong sense of self-efficacy and their own agency, a willingness to invest in themselves, and a can-do attitude.

It's not a stretch to assume that these attributes would also tend to ease the transition from translation to other lines of work and so - ceteris paribus - lead to such people exiting the industry more quickly.

Regards,
Dan [/quote]

I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.

The only thing that I know is that most of my regular clients seem to seek different services and are not regular.
Yes, things have changed a lot and we need to act (and struggle) in different manners.

[Modificato alle 2023-08-09 10:51 GMT]

translation is dead as a profession | Correction

The Shredder — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 15:01:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: Correction

[quote]Dan Lucas wrote:

[quote]Ice Scream wrote:
I started as an in-house translator in the UK in 1993 on £15,000.[/quote]
I was a trainee at one of the Big Six firms in London at the same time and I believe I was on slightly less than that...

Dan [/quote]
Oops, got my numbers slightly wrong. I started on £12,500 in 1993. It was my first employee who started on £15,000 in 1995. Maybe I was being a bit generous.

Point stands though. You wouldn't start on £30k-plus now...

translation is dead as a profession | Failure

The Shredder — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 14:54:00 +0000

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Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: Failure

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of highly specialised translators moving into different fields because they have other options - they have taken specialisation to a level where they can work in a different role in their specialist field - and they have no interest in doing badly paid MTPE jobs.
[/quote]
May I ask where you are seeing this?

[quote]It's not a sign of failure to move between jobs if things aren't working out any more. [/quote]
Isn't "things not working out" the very definition of failure?

[quote]We tend to celebrate it when people come to translation from other fields [/quote]
Do we? Failed lawyers etc are even more likely to fail at translation. (Yes, there are exceptions.)

[quote]but label people as 'failed translators' when they move in the other direction. I see no reason for that.
[/quote]
I wouldn't say that, but that is what they are if it's because "things didn't work out".

We're not yet at a stage where anyone can blame "the market" or "AI" for failing to make a living from translation. There's still plenty of work out there. The only possible culprits are poor translation skills and poor marketing skills. The writing is on the wall, but the wall has yet to come down.

When it does, I will blame my poor marketing skills for my failure as a translator, and nothing else.

translation is dead as a profession | .

Lieven Malaise — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 14:20:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Lieven Malaise
Post title: .

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:
You might not be, but other translators do have degrees and master's degrees in other fields, or have worked in those fields in the first place, or have just worked hard to develop new knowledge and skills. It makes sense that such translators might be quicker to move out of translation if they don't like the developments they are seeing here.[/quote]

But being highly specialised through multiple degrees other than languages or translation says nothing about the quality of a translator. Translation is learnt by learning to thoroughly master all aspects of your mother tongue in the first place and your source languages in the second (often through a degree at a younger age) and further by just doing it, not by getting a degree in some specialisation field you work in (it would be even virtually useless because until this day there hasn't been
a single engineering, legal or medical concept (to use only those specialisation fields among many more) that couldn't be explained through the internet or by ultimately asking some explanation to the end client). During my career I've been dealing with translations of several people without a language degree but 'highly specialized' because they were engineers, for example. Well, their work was terrible to highly mediocre at best. Which makes sense, because mastering languages at a professional translation level is a specialisation in itself. You can't just skip that part. Hence the terribly large number of people working in our business who shouldn't be working in it.

With that in mind it also makes sense to me that those profiles will leave the industry faster than passionate translation geeks that will explore every possibility to keep on thriving in this business, despite all changes, before finally giving up.

(disclaimer: yes, there will always be exceptions, people who excel in virtually everything, but they are first and foremost what they are: exceptions)

[Edited at 2023-08-08 14:20 GMT]

translation is dead as a profession | I may be naive but I want to believe in humankind

Denis Fesik — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 13:06:00 +0000

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Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Denis Fesik
Post title: I may be naive but I want to believe in humankind

Certain processes, and the extremes to which they are being pushed, may give rise to a belief that we will one day abandon all learning, all language, all hard work, all pursuit of truth (and become vegetables babysat by robots). My belief is that we can still change things even if they are bigger than us and even when today's puppetmasters are using consent engineering tricks to make us put up with the way things are going. There's basic enthropy that says we will all rot away and precipitate into subatomic particles, so why bother. And nevertheless, I don't believe all or even most people have that vegetable take on life (does anyone know if Kesey's "One flew..." will be banned anytime soon?).

True, there is a generation of those who haven't been reading anything other than maybe comic books as kids. Those who have been offered education as a service so their teachers, as servants, couldn't do anything to make them learn or enforce discipline on them (don't know if it's true or not, but I heard that when Jackie Chan's parents were sending him to school, they signed a paper saying that the teacher could do anything to their son, even kill him if need be). A young person can become a good translator in the face of these trends, but only if they choose to take the hard way. Which is why whenever I see signs of intellectual labor in a translated text, I'm always pleasantly surprised: most translations coming my way are perfectly machine-like even if done by humans. Pessimists are better prepared, aren't they? And yet I believe people will learn how to deal with the new things the latest tech breakthroughs have brought us; it's just a learning phase. I know that civilizations have been dying throughout history. Don't want ours to die just yet...

translation is dead as a profession | Good point

Dan Lucas — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 12:50:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Dan Lucas
Post title: Good point

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:
It may not be the 'worst of us' that end up leaving the profession first. I'm seeing a lot of highly specialised translators moving into different fields because they have other options - they have taken specialisation to a level where they can work in a different role in their specialist field - and they have no interest in doing badly paid MTPE jobs.[/quote]
This is a persuasive point. How do people become highly specialised and (presumably) successful? Through having confidence, a strong sense of self-efficacy and their own agency, a willingness to invest in themselves, and a can-do attitude.

It's not a stretch to assume that these attributes would also tend to ease the transition from translation to other lines of work and so - ceteris paribus - lead to such people exiting the industry more quickly.

Regards,
Dan

translation is dead as a profession | Struggling

Rachel Waddington — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 11:39:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Rachel Waddington
Post title: Struggling

[quote]Lieven Malaise wrote:
Let's also not forget that the situation is far from uniform across different domains and language combinations so a translator who is struggling is not necessarily a worse translator than one doing better. I see this assumption a lot and it is not very helpful. Imagine how it feels to lose your livelihood and at the same time get a verbal kicking from your peers.[/quote]

I don't think I ever said that a struggling translator is by definition a bad translator. I do believe, though, that a (long) struggling translator is doing things wrong in one way or another (rates too high, lack of communication skills/efforts, lack of marketing skills/efforts, whatever).

That wasn't aimed at you specifically, more a general comment on the tone of the debate in the whole profession sometimes.

translation is dead as a profession | Failure, etc.

Rachel Waddington — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 11:37:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Rachel Waddington
Post title: Failure, etc.

[quote]Lieven Malaise wrote:

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of highly specialised translators moving into different fields because they have other options - they have taken specialisation to a level where they can work in a different role in their specialist field [/quote]

Being specialized as a translator doesn't mean you have acquired knowledge and skills worthy of a degree that gives access to a completely new job. I'm much sollicited for engineering, medical and legal documentation, but I am nowhere near a qualified engineer, doctor or laywer. So I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here.
[/quote]

You might not be, but other translators do have degrees and master's degrees in other fields, or have worked in those fields in the first place, or have just worked hard to develop new knowledge and skills. It makes sense that such translators might be quicker to move out of translation if they don't like the developments they are seeing here.

[quote]
If I wouldn't make a decent living anymore in a few months and I would be forced to do something else, then I will have failed.
[/quote]

I think you would be being a bit hard on yourself in that case. If you make a good living for many years but decide to do something else because the market has changed or you're just not enjoying it any more you haven't failed. There is no rule that people are supposed to do the same job for their whole lives.

translation is dead as a profession | .

Lieven Malaise — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 10:33:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Lieven Malaise
Post title: .

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of highly specialised translators moving into different fields because they have other options - they have taken specialisation to a level where they can work in a different role in their specialist field [/quote]

Being specialized as a translator doesn't mean you have acquired knowledge and skills worthy of a degree that gives access to a completely new job. I'm much sollicited for engineering, medical and legal documentation, but I am nowhere near a qualified engineer, doctor or laywer. So I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here.

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:
and they have no interest in doing badly paid MTPE jobs.[/quote]

This has nothing to do with being highly skilled or not, but everything with the willingness of testing MTPE and seeing if it is possible to make it work (financially). Being a freelancer involves a lot more than just being linguistically skilled. The best translator out there won't make it as a freelancer without any commercial skills, creativity and adaptability.

In my opinion, if people leave the industry it's not because "they have other options", but rather because they no longer see a way to keep on making a decent living. In the end everybody has other options.

[quote]The less skilled may hang on in there for as long as possible accepting progressively worse rates because they have little choice.[/quote]

The same goes for the less skilled in conventional translation. It has always been that way. The big difference is that those translators no longer will be able to make a decent living because their accepted MTPE rates are too low.

[quote] Let's also not forget that the situation is far from uniform across different domains and language combinations so a translator who is struggling is not necessarily a worse translator than one doing better. I see this assumption a lot and it is not very helpful. Imagine how it feels to lose your livelihood and at the same time get a verbal kicking from your peers.[/quote]

I don't think I ever said that a struggling translator is by definition a bad translator. I do believe, though, that a (long) struggling translator is doing things wrong in one way or another (rates too high, lack of communication skills/efforts, lack of marketing skills/efforts, whatever).

[quote]It's not a sign of failure to move between jobs if things aren't working out any more. We tend to celebrate it when people come to translation from other fields but label people as 'failed translators' when they move in the other direction. I see no reason for that.[/quote]

If I wouldn't make a decent living anymore in a few months and I would be forced to do something else, then I will have failed. There's nothing wrong about pointing that out. Failure is part of life and might even mark the beginning of a new, better era for yourself. My failure to communicate in an appropriate way towards my boss almost 2 decades ago cost me my inhouse job, but drove me towards freelancing, which was the best thing that could possibly occur to me.

translation is dead as a profession | Wheat and chaff

Rachel Waddington — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 09:32:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Rachel Waddington
Post title: Wheat and chaff

[quote]Lieven Malaise wrote:

That said you are right that many of us will suffer or be forced to leave the industry, i.e. the worst part of 'us'. I've embraced post-editing (MTPE) since a year or 2 now and it's safe to say that, at least in my language pairs, machine translation renders less stupid and irrational mistakes than a lot of my 'respected colleagues'. You can't trust machine translations, it (luckily) still needs editing and sometimes a lot, but its (mostly lack-of-context related) mistakes are more predictable than the ones of the many sorry excuses for translators out there.

In my humble opinion the coming years the wheat will be separated from the chaff faster than ever, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing. [/quote]

It may not be the 'worst of us' that end up leaving the profession first. I'm seeing a lot of highly specialised translators moving into different fields because they have other options - they have taken specialisation to a level where they can work in a different role in their specialist field - and they have no interest in doing badly paid MTPE jobs.

The less skilled may hang on in there for as long as possible accepting progressively worse rates because they have little choice.

Let's also not forget that the situation is far from uniform across different domains and language combinations so a translator who is struggling is not necessarily a worse translator than one doing better. I see this assumption a lot and it is not very helpful. Imagine how it feels to lose your livelihood and at the same time get a verbal kicking from your peers.

It's not a sign of failure to move between jobs if things aren't working out any more. We tend to celebrate it when people come to translation from other fields but label people as 'failed translators' when they move in the other direction. I see no reason for that.

translation is dead as a profession | Sad to read

Luca Adie — Mon, 07 Aug 2023 12:31:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Luca Adie
Post title: Sad to read

[quote]Robert Hess wrote:

As I have posted here before in a thread I started late last year, I am a legal translator for GermanEnglish with over 25 years experience. All of my work comes - or at least came - from direct clients in Germany, mostly law firms.

Until 2020 my workflow was very steady, with minimal fluctuations year to year. The same was true for several colleagues who are also legal translators for German English.

Then the pandemic hit and, as for most of us, things took a turn for the worse. But it soon became apparent that the pandemic was not the only, or even the main, culprit. In the background, another virus was silently spreading. As everyone was hunkering down at home, DeepL was making inroads into the translation world, promising accurate and fast translations for pennies.

Still, no one was quite was what was really going on. All people knew was that suddenly they had a lot less work. For a while my colleagues and I were hoping that, maybe, somehow, the pandemic was still depressing our work. But then I polled my clients anonymously late last year, and my worst fears were soon confirmed. Eighty-two percent (82%) responded that they were using DeepL to such an extent that they had substantially less need for external translation services. Bam!

Today, I count myself lucky that my workflow has "only" declined 50% compared to pre-2020 - so far, that is.

A few days ago I received the sobering news from one of my long-time colleagues - a German-to-English legal translator with about 20 years of experience, both inhouse and as a sole proprietor - that he had decided to close down his business due to an utter lack of work.

I have two other colleagues, both former attorneys like myself and even with a few years more experience than myself, who are barely hanging on. Both expect their businesses to die completely within a year or so. Both are looking for other lines of work, and one has already begun working as an attorney-reviewer of German legal documents part time (basically, a litigation support job).

I am writing this not so much to vent as to WARN potential newcomers considering a career in legal translations, or really any translations. If you are even thinking about it, STOP and look elsewhere. There is no money to be made in this market anymore. The only reason I am still around is that I have been in business for almost 30 years and have a deep, loyal (to a point) clientele. There is a zero chance that I, or anyone, could build up that kind of clientele today.

One more observation: I offered my clients seven months ago to do post-DeepL editing work (MTPE) at a far reduced rate, if that's what they prefer. So far, not a single client has taken me up on that offer. This should serve as a warning to those who think that, well, I can always do MTPE work, even if it means lower pay. Maybe, you can get that sort of work from agencies, but now we are talking about rates that can hardly be expressed in full numbers anymore. Unless you happen to live in China or India, you will not be able to make a living that way.

I wish that the ATA would be more proactive and start collecting, and then publishing, survey data on the issue. What percentage of ATA-certified translators has seen their workflow drop? By how much? In which language pairs? How much do translators earn per month/year today? And so on.

My guess is that the ATA knows very well that the survey responses would deal a crushing blow to the profession, including the ATA itself. Instead, the ATA seems to believe (or pretend to believe) that "Ooh, AI translation is a wonderful thing that makes our work as translators more efficient, bla bla bla." That's complete BS. And they know it.

Good luck to everyone, whatever you do!

Robert

[/quote]

That's very sad to hear.

Just looked at your rates, and although I am sure you are worth that level of payment, I am unfortunately not surprised that clients are looking elsewhere. My highest rate, which was sniggered at, was 0.18 EUR, and I regularly get paid less working with agencies. I would make more money doing art articles, but my brain can't take more than a few days of that gobbledegook. I don't see any translator now or in the future charging 0.30-0.40 USD per word.

I feel there has been an undiscussed battle between very high earning translators, and those who churn it out at a consistent level (I'm more often than not, a churner... I am unfortunately unable to spend as long as I would like on some work) - the middle ground has been mostly swallowed up by agencies, and now they are turning to DeepL and co, pushing even the "churners" out of the pack.

Work remained constant for me during the pandemic and even reached peak levels - now I am much more focussed on what I translate (only large jobs, medical or legal). I also have another couple of lines of income and I fear this is what will become the norm, for everyone.

Happy translatoring,

àdie
[url removed]

translation is dead as a profession | Even legal translators are dying

Robert Hess — Mon, 07 Aug 2023 01:18:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Robert Hess
Post title: Even legal translators are dying

As I have posted here before in a thread I started late last year, I am a legal translator for GermanEnglish with over 25 years experience. All of my work comes - or at least came - from direct clients in Germany, mostly law firms.

Until 2020 my workflow was very steady, with minimal fluctuations year to year. The same was true for several colleagues who are also legal translators for German English.

Then the pandemic hit and, as for most of us, things took a turn for the worse. But it soon became apparent that the pandemic was not the only, or even the main, culprit. In the background, another virus was silently spreading. As everyone was hunkering down at home, DeepL was making inroads into the translation world, promising accurate and fast translations for pennies.

Still, no one was quite was what was really going on. All people knew was that suddenly they had a lot less work. For a while my colleagues and I were hoping that, maybe, somehow, the pandemic was still depressing our work. But then I polled my clients anonymously late last year, and my worst fears were soon confirmed. Eighty-two percent (82%) responded that they were using DeepL to such an extent that they had substantially less need for external translation services. Bam!

Today, I count myself lucky that my workflow has "only" declined 50% compared to pre-2020 - so far, that is.

A few days ago I received the sobering news from one of my long-time colleagues - a German-to-English legal translator with about 20 years of experience, both inhouse and as a sole proprietor - that he had decided to close down his business due to an utter lack of work.

I have two other colleagues, both former attorneys like myself and even with a few years more experience than myself, who are barely hanging on. Both expect their businesses to die completely within a year or so. Both are looking for other lines of work, and one has already begun working as an attorney-reviewer of German legal documents part time (basically, a litigation support job).

I am writing this not so much to vent as to WARN potential newcomers considering a career in legal translations, or really any translations. If you are even thinking about it, STOP and look elsewhere. There is no money to be made in this market anymore. The only reason I am still around is that I have been in business for almost 30 years and have a deep, loyal (to a point) clientele. There is a zero chance that I, or anyone, could build up that kind of clientele today.

One more observation: I offered my clients seven months ago to do post-DeepL editing work (MTPE) at a far reduced rate, if that's what they prefer. So far, not a single client has taken me up on that offer. This should serve as a warning to those who think that, well, I can always do MTPE work, even if it means lower pay. Maybe, you can get that sort of work from agencies, but now we are talking about rates that can hardly be expressed in full numbers anymore. Unless you happen to live in China or India, you will not be able to make a living that way.

I wish that the ATA would be more proactive and start collecting, and then publishing, survey data on the issue. What percentage of ATA-certified translators has seen their workflow drop? By how much? In which language pairs? How much do translators earn per month/year today? And so on.

My guess is that the ATA knows very well that the survey responses would deal a crushing blow to the profession, including the ATA itself. Instead, the ATA seems to believe (or pretend to believe) that "Ooh, AI translation is a wonderful thing that makes our work as translators more efficient, bla bla bla." That's complete BS. And they know it.

Good luck to everyone, whatever you do!

Robert

translation is dead as a profession | Drivers

David GAY — Fri, 04 Aug 2023 19:02:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: David GAY
Post title: Drivers

[quote]IrinaN wrote:

For starters, numbers-wise, profession No 1. in the world is driver. Millions and millions of them. For how long will the majority of them survive?
:-) [/quote]
Proz is a site meant for translators so nobody here is concerned. There are serious issues that have hindered the rollout of automatic driving so far so driver is still an AI proof job. There are a lot of jobs that are more at stake than drivers, for instance journalist or graphic designer but I don t see how it can be of comfort to translators anyway...The list of jobs one should avoid is just growing. Translators who want to find a new job will find it even harder. So I don t think it s a consolation

[Edited at 2023-08-04 19:05 GMT]

translation is dead as a profession | I'll get round to reading these eventually...

Luca Adie — Fri, 04 Aug 2023 06:25:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Luca Adie
Post title: I'll get round to reading these eventually...

I'll get round to reading these eventually, but as long as translation keeps paying the bills and my holidays, I'll keep at it. 18 years and counting.

The industry of translation is changing, but translation is the same as it ever was. I've had to change to fit in with the industry - now I concentrate on medical, legal and patent work, something I would never have imagined when I graduated.

I'm lucky to have some good clients - I am thankful whenever I get a new, juicy project!

I do feel sorry for younger colleagues who didn't have the chance to grow up without the internet or real dictionaries - but I suppose they will have qualities I don't have. It's a case of going with it, or change profession.

Happy translatoring,

paul àdie
wordsmith
ES, CAT, FR, DE, RU > EN
[url removed]

translation is dead as a profession | Don't tell people that...

Carlos A R de Souza — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 01:23:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: Carlos A R de Souza
Post title: Don't tell people that...

[quote]Magnus Rubensson wrote:

[quote]30,700 €-47,600 gross/year = max. around 30,500 € net/year = around 2,500 € net/month
Net calculator: [url removed]
Freelancers should be well above these averages. [/quote]

----------------------------
Maybe we should, but my own experience tells me clearly that we no longer are.

I work mostly with documentation for industrial machinery/technical equipment and similar. I've worked full time for over 25 years. The decline in volume in the technical fields is quite clear, at least to me.
My personal guess is that technical jobs is one area where AI might work relatively well.

Some translators will manage to hang on, I'm sure. But the way things appear to be going, some of us (myself included) may have some rather 'interesting' decisions to make - sooner rather than later. [/quote]

Some people here will still argue that only the chaff will be removed from the field, and that they make 100,000 euro / year.

translation is dead as a profession | Why just translators?

IrinaN (X) — Mon, 31 Jul 2023 22:09:00 +0000

Forum: Off topic
Topic: translation is dead as a profession
Poster: IrinaN (X)
Post title: Why just translators?

For starters, numbers-wise, profession No 1. in the world is driver. Millions and millions of them. For how long will the majority of them survive?

Do you foresee the world with a few (relatively) AI eggheads bloated with wealth and power, which they fully control and distribute mostly among themselves, and the remaining herds of little people leaving on universal basic income, also determined by the same above? Of course, it will all be named, described and induced in a 100% politically correct and pleasant manner. A sheer bliss, no one will be left behind:-) The experiment is already being run here and there. How very humane:-).

I do. Thank goodness, I'll definitely be busy elsewhere by then :-)