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agnellato
Feb 5, 2012 18:59
12 yrs ago
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Italian term

Tramandare sé stessa

Italian to English Other History Holocaust
In un certo qual modo, anche in quella dimensione del non-essere che era rappresentata dalla (ir)realtà del ghetto, la comunità compiva, attraverso l'accettazione della selezione imposta dai nazisti, l'ultimo disperato sforzo di tramandare sé stessa, di preservarsi il più a lungo possibile proteggendo i propri caratteri più idonei alla sopravvivenza.

In a way, even in that dimension of not-beingwhich the (un)reality of the ghetto represented, accepting the selection imposed by the Nazis was the last desperate effort that the Jewish community made in order to be able to keep a hope for the future and preserve itself for as long as possible through the protection of the traits which were necessary to survival.

E' una traduzione a dir poco "letteraria". Non riesco ad esprimere il concetto di "tramandare sé stessa"!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 perpetuate itself
4 +1 Transcend itself
4 to be passed down
4 to survive themselves
4 sustain itself
4 to hand itself down to the future
3 to outlive itself/to outlast itself
2 to leave a legacy

Proposed translations

+3
7 mins
Selected

perpetuate itself

One of many possible translations.
Peer comment(s):
agree Susy Sinigag (X)
12 hrs
agree Isabelle Johnson : Yes I like this.
12 hrs
agree Linda Thody
15 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
50 mins

to be passed down

Un'altra opzione.
Note from asker:
;) grazie, ci avevo pensato a dire il vero. credo che tradurrò: "perpetuate itself"
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54 mins

to survive themselves

It isn't quite the same thing technically, but perhaps it translates the spirit of the Italian.
Note from asker:
thanx. i think i'll use "to perpetuate itself"
Peer comment(s):
neutral texjax DDS PhD : I like this option, the only problem is that there is another "survival" at the end of the sentence.
2 hrs
Hmm have you read Cicero? He explains the appropriate use of repetition in rhetoric. " .... protecting those traits most suited to that same survival"
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+1
1 hr

Transcend itself

This looks like a literal translation, but was the first idea I had on reading the text. I think it suits the context and is of the correct register, often being used in philosophical and academic explanations such as this.

The dictionary definitions below show its meaning both with and without object.

"Transcend
verb (used with object)
1. to rise above or go beyond; overpass; exceed: to transcend the limits of thought; kindness transcends courtesy.
2. to outdo or exceed in excellence, elevation, extent, degree, etc.; surpass; excel.
3. Theology . (of the Deity) to be above and independent of (the universe, time, etc.).
verb (used without object)
4. to be transcendent or superior; excel: His competitiveness made him want to transcend."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/transcend?qsrc=2446
Example sentence:

"The fourth requirement is to sensitise the educational functionaries outside the schools to appreciate the need to TRANSCEND generations, while determining and understanding the needs of the schools,..."

"Our Mission: To nurture a unified Jewish Community that TRANSCENDS generations and neighborhoods."

Reference:

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article2370016.ece

http://www.orlandojewishfed.org/page.aspx?id=209560

Note from asker:
thanx, i'm undecided. maybe i'll use "perpetuate itself" of your option ;)
Peer comment(s):
agree Lorraine Buckley (X) : with explanation and well backed up by references
3 hrs
Thank you.
neutral Michael Korovkin : Yeah, "trascendere" would have the same ("freudian":)) meaning in Italian as "transcend" in English.But in the Italian text it wasn't "trascendere":it was "tramandare",for a reason,one supposes.Non superar se stessa(transcend)ma mandar avanti se stessa,+-
11 hrs
Maybe, but these Freudian type interpretations would be just as relevant in Italy, therefore what is the problem with a literal translation? i.e. If Freud and his peers were writing in Italian, I am sure they would have also said "Tramandare...betrays etc
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3 hrs

to outlive itself/to outlast itself

Iy might work

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2012-02-05 22:04:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

iy=it
Example sentence:

They wrote of their intentions for their diaries to outlive themselves and defy any Nazi future cover up. Herman Kruk illuminated this in his astoundingly detailed diary from the Vilna Ghetto

Reference:

http://dtl.unimelb.edu.au//exlibris/dtl/d3_1/apache_media/L2V4bGlicmlzL2R0bC9kM18xL2FwYWNoZV9tZWRpYS8yNjkzNTk=.pdf

Note from asker:
grazie. mi piace molto la tua proposta, non se se userò questa o "perpetuate itself".
Peer comment(s):
neutral Michael Korovkin : that was what I thought of even before you had posted yours, but then it gave me a persistent (perhaps wrong) impression of becoming somewhat obsolete... I don't mean me (not yet!), I mean the Ghetto! :)
10 hrs
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5 hrs

sustain itself

another option, similar to your own "preserve".

They wanted to keep hope alive and so sustained themselves as well as possible by protecting and maintaining as many of those character traits which would help them survive as they could...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sustain

sustain - lengthen or extend in duration or space; "We sustained the diplomatic negotiations as long as possible"; "prolong the treatment of the patient"; "keep up the good work"
keep up, prolong
keep on, retain, continue, keep - allow to remain in a place or position or maintain a property or feature; ..."We kept the work going as long as we could"; "She retained her composure"; preserve, uphold, carry on, continue, cause to remain or last; "continue the family tradition"; "Carry on the old traditions"
Note from asker:
thanx. maybe i'll use "ti perpetuate itself"
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14 hrs

to leave a legacy

Not an exact translation by any means, but possibly appropriate in the context?
Note from asker:
pretty good, actually. maybe i'll use it, or "to perpetuate itself"
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13 hrs

to hand itself down to the future

Somewhat wordy but, in my view, a more straightforward alternative. Other versions that come to mind strike me as though they either may connote becoming obsolete or sound too paradoxical.


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Note added at 4 days (2012-02-10 10:00:22 GMT)
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To tell you honest truth, "to perpetuate" was the first thing I thought of too. But then (giuro, in tempi non-sospetti!) I reconsidered. Perpetuation denotes existential contunuiity. And yet a particular ghetto may die physically but hand itself down to the future (or, at least, to history) through some of the individuals of whom it was comprised. For example, the Warsaw ghetto was eliminated altogether and yet it has handed itself down to both the future and history; and through that legacy had started anew in more places than just one.
Note from asker:
i like your suggestion, the only problem is that it's too long. i think i'll use "to perpetuate itself". cheers
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