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someone who chooses not to face the truth
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Oct 12, 2016 06:03
7 yrs ago
English term

Comapare to

Non-PRO English Tech/Engineering General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
compare to or compare with? Which is better in the following?

High magnetic permeability materials (S15H) are used to significantly reinforce the noise suppression effects in the low frequency band when compared to those of conventional products. (Ratio when compared to those of conventional materials: |Z| value is improved approx. 40% .)

Thank you for your kind help.
Responses
4 +6 to
4 +3 compare with
4 +2 either
4 by comparison with / as compared with
References
to v. with

Discussion

Charles Davis Oct 12, 2016:
If we are going to apply the traditional distinction between "compare to" and "compare with", as stated in the sources Rachel, Peter and I have cited, it is difficult to see how "to" could be defended here. All the sources say that "compare A to B" or "A compared to B" is used when A is likened to B, when A is seen to be similar to B. But the comparison in the ST is one of significant difference, not similarity. You couldn't replace "compare to" with "liken to" here. By contrast, "with" fits, because "A when compared with B" means "A when examined in relation to B to determine the degree of similarity/difference", and in this ST, when that is done they turn out to be different.

But as I commented before, and as Tony has also said, this traditional distinction is widely disregarded nowadays, and there has been a clear shift in real usage away from "with" and towards "to" in contexts where "with" would traditionally have been preferred.

So "either" is correct in prevailing modern usage and "with" is correct in traditional usage. And Tony is also right that in the former "to" is acceptable here, and that "with" is acceptable too. And in that situation "sounds better" is fair comment
Charles Davis Oct 12, 2016:
I don't think there's any doubt that many people would spontaneously say/write "when compared to", but "when compared with" actually seems preferable to me. To my mind, with "when" the sense is "when you compare them", and comparing them means examining them side by side to see how similar or different they are. As noted above, "with" is traditionally preferred here, though many people now use "to". Without "when", the argument, and possibly the answer, would be different, in my opinion.
Charles Davis Oct 12, 2016:
Traditionally there is a difference in usage, which I think many people still observe. It is expressed in the Collins definitions:

"compare
1. (transitive; usually foll by to) to regard or represent as analogous or similar; liken ⇒ the general has been compared to Napoleon
2. (transitive; usually foll by with) to examine in order to observe resemblances or differences ⇒ to compare rum with gin"
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/compare

The same basic point is made here, and I think it is sound:
http://gmat-grammar.blogspot.com.es/2006/09/compare-to-vs-co...

Insofar as such a difference exists, it is by no means always observed. But it certainly cannot be said without qualification that "to" is the standard preposition after "compare" in all contexts. Further useful comment here (under "usage"):
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/compare
And in more detail here:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage/compare-with-or-comp...
Charles Davis Oct 12, 2016:
The striking preference for "compare to" among most colleagues here may perhaps reflect an observable shift from "with" to "to" in contemporary usage, but the idea that "compare with" is wrong, or an uncommon variant of "compare to", is simply untrue. The ngram result is a crude measure but it shows a strong and continuing, though declining, preponderance of "compare with" over "compare to":
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=compare with,c...

"Compared it with" was more common than "compared it to" until around 1980, since when it has been the other way round:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=compared it wi...
airmailrpl Oct 12, 2016:
correct the glossary entry... You should correct the glossary entry for the query term = Comapare => Compare

Responses

+6
13 mins
English term (edited): compared to
Selected

to

Where a direct contrast is being emphasized, as here, 'compared to' may be considered acceptable.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 heures (2016-10-12 09:39:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I was always taught, traditionally, that it should be 'compared with', and I would certainly never suggest that could be 'wrong' — however, I have observed a tendency in vurrent usage for 'to' to be used more frequently than it once owuld have been... which is exactly why I worded my answer specifically that ".. 'compared to' may be considered acceptable." — I was assuming Asker was asking if it was alright to use 'to' instead of with?
Peer comment(s):
agree Edith Kelly : agree, compare with is at least not good BE
3 mins
Thanks, Edith! Though 'compare with' is indeed fien, even for BE; I just don't think it flows quite as well here, though as all the gramarians have pointed out, it is at least pedantically more correct.
agree Peter Simon
18 mins
Thanks, Peter!
agree Margarida Martins Costelha
1 hr
Thanks, Margarida!
agree Jack Doughty : I don't think "compare with" is wrong but I prefer "compare to".
1 hr
Thanks, Jack!
neutral Charles Davis : "Compare with" is perfectly good BE (and non-BE), and is preferable when compare means "examine to determine degree of similarity/difference". "To" is definitely preferred when "compare" means "liken". IMO "to" is certainly not preferable here.
3 hrs
Thanks, Charles! I think what you say is formally perfectly true, but I still feel 'to' actually sounds better in this particular instance.
agree Cilian O'Tuama : IMO 'to' is better in this case, but 'with' can be more appropriate in others.
16 hrs
Thanks, Cilian! Yes, couldn't agree more.
agree Yvonne Gallagher : and with Jack
16 hrs
Thanks, G!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you!!"
+2
2 hrs
English term (edited): compare to

either

when compared to => when compared with

You should correct the glossary entry for the query term = Comapare => Compare
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : Yes, either, depending partly on whether you interpret "compare" as "liken" (usually "to") or as "examine to determine degree of similarity/difference" (usually with), but also region (relative pref. for to in US Eng) and personal habit.
58 mins
thank you
disagree Peter Simon : There is a dissimilarity as to when with and to is used, but either is rather hazy, means it doesn't matter. And that's not the case. Only if the meaning of the answer is 'either this or that, depending'
2 hrs
apparently quite a few others do not agree with you
agree writeaway : yes, either.
2 hrs
thank you
agree Yasutomo Kanazawa
2 hrs
thank you
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+3
3 hrs
English term (edited): compare to

compare with

This is the definition in my 2011 UK dictionary:

compare

compare to put (as if) side by side so as to ascertain how far things agree or disagree (often with with); to liken or represent as similar (with to)
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway : Don't understand the disagree but maybe it's different in Hungarian?
3 mins
Thank you writeaway :-)
agree Charles Davis : I should probably have posted this myself; it's what I think.
31 mins
Thank you Charles - yes, I saw your dictionary quote above just after I posted this.
agree acetran
4 hrs
Thank you acetran :-)
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6 hrs

by comparison with / as compared with

Because "the noise suppression effects in the low frequency band" would not only be "significantly reinforced" when compared to those of conventional products, but even if and at times that one didn't bother comparing them.
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Reference comments

4 hrs
Reference:

to v. with

Let me add what the Oxf. Collocation Dict. says about this. "WITH Few things compare with (=are as good as) the joy of cycling ...", otherwise, TO "I've had some difficulties but they were nothing compared to yours (=they were not nearly as bad as yours)" (OUP, 2001).
The earlier (1967) Macmillan "English Prepositional Idioms" (F.T.Wood) states, "We compare one thing TO another when we state a resemblance between them ... Compare WITH means 'place side by side, noting the resemblances and differences', usually with the stress on the differences. WITH is also the preposition used when 'compare' is used intransitively. ... BETWEEN may also be used when 'comparison' corresponds in meaning to 'compare with'. (As far as quality is concerned, this cannot be compared with the other; there is no comparison between them)"
A bit further back, the Longman 'Prepositions and Adverbial Particles' (by J.b. Heaton) says 'compare to' when sg is "likened to" the other, but 'with' when we note "the similarities between" them. I know these are old references but these are things the older generations of professionals the world over relied on and are consistent with the rather new Oxford evidence. I wouldn't like to seem prescriptive, only to show various additional sources (not really in vogue in the age of the internet but more reliable I suppose) and to prove that 'either' is a misconjecture.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Tony M : This is pretty much as I learnt at school 40+ years ago; I got the impression I was a dinosaur, and modern usage has moved on ;-)
26 mins
Thanks, Tony. Perhaps it has, part of the reason why I put this up, to see what others think of the changes.
disagree Charles Davis : To clarify: Oxf irrelevant because the bit you cite refers to collocation in specific contexts quite different from this. What Wood and Heaton say is clear and sound; the muddle is how you are applying it to this case, as shown here and in your comments.
1 hr
Thank, Charles, for your sweeping comment. For me, it seems quite muddled why you call the Oxford reference 'irrelevant', and why the other examples are muddled, but that's what your opinion is. Accepted.
agree Yvonne Gallagher
12 hrs
Thank you, Gallagy!
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