Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Latin term or phrase:
indomita colla virorum iugo
English translation:
jugo is an ablative
Added to glossary by
Olga Cartlidge
Apr 25, 2010 03:21
14 yrs ago
Latin term
Medical and Legal Translations
Native in: Russian 
Works in: English to Russian, French to Russian, German to Russian, and 9 more.
indomita colla virorum iugo
Latin to English
Art/Literary
History
15 century Latin
Context: Fuit etenim hec Thoantis, Lemniadum regis, filia, eo evo
regnantis quo rabies illa subivit mulierum insule mentes, subtrahendi omnino
indomita colla virorum iugo - why is iugo in the Nominative and why is it not in the dictionaries ? I use Lebaigue - Gaffiot and some very good German dics. Thank you !
regnantis quo rabies illa subivit mulierum insule mentes, subtrahendi omnino
indomita colla virorum iugo - why is iugo in the Nominative and why is it not in the dictionaries ? I use Lebaigue - Gaffiot and some very good German dics. Thank you !
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | jugo is an ablative |
Sandra Mouton
|
| 5 | iugo is dativ, not nominativ |
Constantinos Faridis (X)
|
Proposed translations
+1
5 hrs
Sandra Mouton
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Works in field
United Kingdom
Efficiency and finesse
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, Russian to French, Latin to French, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
24
Selected
jugo is an ablative
I haven't had the time to look at your text thoroughly, but I think the word is "jugum", neuter, meaning "the yoke" and your phrase is something like "the necks of men, never submitted to (by) the yoke"
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Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-25 17:51:28 GMT)
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Sorry I hadn't looked properly at the text. It seems to me that Betussi is wrong and I understand it like Virginia Brown: juo is still IMO the ablative of jugum ("yoke, domination"):rabies the rage, subtrahendi to shield omnino completely indomita colla their necks jugo from the yoke virirum of the men (of their husbans). I hope this helps.
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Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-25 17:53:05 GMT)
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Sorry for all the typos: "juo" should be read as "jugo" and "virirum" as "virorum"
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Note added at 16 hrs (2010-04-25 19:40:09 GMT)
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It seems we have a different interpretation of subtrahere, then
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Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2010-04-26 08:48:01 GMT)
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Sorry, "to shield" was a hasty translation of the deinition my Latin to French (Gaffiot) dictionary has for subtrahere (soustraire). "Take sth away"is better than "to shield".
About "indomita colla", I don't believe in the adverbial hypothesis.
Good luck for the rest of your work.
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Note added at 3 days15 hrs (2010-04-28 19:09:13 GMT)
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That was my point from the beginning. I think we are in agreement about everything except the meaning of subtrahendi.
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Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-25 17:51:28 GMT)
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Sorry I hadn't looked properly at the text. It seems to me that Betussi is wrong and I understand it like Virginia Brown: juo is still IMO the ablative of jugum ("yoke, domination"):rabies the rage, subtrahendi to shield omnino completely indomita colla their necks jugo from the yoke virirum of the men (of their husbans). I hope this helps.
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Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-25 17:53:05 GMT)
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Sorry for all the typos: "juo" should be read as "jugo" and "virirum" as "virorum"
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Note added at 16 hrs (2010-04-25 19:40:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It seems we have a different interpretation of subtrahere, then
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2010-04-26 08:48:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Sorry, "to shield" was a hasty translation of the deinition my Latin to French (Gaffiot) dictionary has for subtrahere (soustraire). "Take sth away"is better than "to shield".
About "indomita colla", I don't believe in the adverbial hypothesis.
Good luck for the rest of your work.
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Note added at 3 days15 hrs (2010-04-28 19:09:13 GMT)
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That was my point from the beginning. I think we are in agreement about everything except the meaning of subtrahendi.
Note from asker:
| Many thanks for all the comments. Betussi is saying: nellquale entro una fantasia nelle donne al tutto di donar gli huomini et mettergli col collo sotto il giogo (= and put them with their neck(s) under a yoke). This agrees with one of the meanings of subtrahere quoted as "unterwerfen" i.e. subjugate. So would Betussi be wrong here ? |
| Whereas the widely acclaimed translation by Virgina Brown says: ... during whose reign the women of that island were seized by a mad desire to escape their husbands' tyranny. |
| I read it as - to bring into subjection the entirely unbridled necks of men // by a yoke // (= to settle scores with the men whose behaviour was totally out of order). ??? |
| Where did you find the meaning of "to shield " for subtrahere, Sandra ? I am inclined to think it means "get away from " here and indomita colla must be an adverbial expression - in the spirit of freedom or smth along these lines. |
| It sounds like indomita colla depends on subtrahendi, Sandra. Move away their unbridled necks from the yoke of men i.e. remove their necks from the yoke imposed which would therefore set them free. I don t think there s any way round it. |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks to all. "
2 hrs
iugo is dativ, not nominativ
Nbf. iugus, ī, m., Rossi inscr. Chr. I, 77. Quelle: Karl Ernst Georges: Ausführliches lateinisch-deutsches Handwörterbuch. Hannover 81918 (Nachdruck ...
www.zeno.org/Georges.../iugum
www.zeno.org/Georges.../iugum
Note from asker:
| Thank you, Constantinos. I am still a bit stuck here. Subtrahendi iugo virorum - ok. Where does indomita colla fit in then ? |
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