Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Russian term or phrase:
искусство vs художество
English translation:
... consider it a noble art, a true art/an art in and of itself)
Added to glossary by
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
Jan 17, 2017 22:14
7 yrs ago
Russian term
искусство vs художество
Russian to English
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
Phrase in question: Они чрезвычайно любят свое ремесло и считают его благородным искусством, художеством.
Context: 19th century Russian journalism.
Both искусство and художество mean art to me, but the author clearly thinks they're different. Is художество simply more emphatic than искусство, or is it a different domain?
Context: 19th century Russian journalism.
Both искусство and художество mean art to me, but the author clearly thinks they're different. Is художество simply more emphatic than искусство, or is it a different domain?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +3 | ... consider it a noble art, an art in itself. |
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
|
| 4 +2 | см. ниже |
Tatiana Grehan
|
| 4 -1 | mastery vs art |
Turdimurod Rakhmanov
|
| 3 -1 | art and |
Ellen Kraus
|
References
| художество |
Igor Andreev
|
Change log
Jan 19, 2017 10:31: Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+3
5 hrs
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
On time, on target, on budget.
Native in: English 
, Polish
Works in: Polish to English, English to Polish, Russian to Polish, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
20
Selected
... consider it a noble art, an art in itself.
For the purpose of the sentence, the two words amplify each other.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2017-01-18 03:36:06 GMT)
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More precisely, ...consider it a noble art, an art in and of itself
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Note added at 13 hrs (2017-01-18 12:01:04 GMT)
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One may even shorten it as ...consider it a noble art, a true art (all artists consider themselves true artists)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2017-01-18 03:36:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
More precisely, ...consider it a noble art, an art in and of itself
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2017-01-18 12:01:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
One may even shorten it as ...consider it a noble art, a true art (all artists consider themselves true artists)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
The Misha
: This works too.
4 hrs
|
|
Thank you, The Misha.
|
|
| agree |
Oleg Lozinskiy
4 hrs
|
|
Thank you, Oleg.
|
|
| agree |
danya
: with the last one. or "..a noble art, a fine art"
11 hrs
|
|
Thank you, danya. I am glad that you agree that a literary technique is involved here.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks very much!"
+2
17 mins
Tatiana Grehan
United States
United States
Native in Russian
United States
EN>RU corporate,business,legal,finance
Native in: Russian
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English
см. ниже
Это одно и то же, но "художество" - устаревшее слово (именно в значении "искусство"). См. https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/художество
-1
21 mins
Ellen Kraus
Austria
Austria
Austria
more than thirty years of experience
Native in: German
Works in: Greek to German, English to German, Greek to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
art and
художество сomprises the various fields of art such as e.g. painting, architecture etc., this painter is one of the most famous artists of our century (он знаменитый художник) etc.
whereas искусство means in a wider sense dexterity, skilfulness (Он искуссный narrator )
whereas искусство means in a wider sense dexterity, skilfulness (Он искуссный narrator )
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
The Misha
: There is really no such difference. This is simply an obsolete word.
9 hrs
|
-1
34 mins
Turdimurod Rakhmanov
Kyrgyzstan
Kyrgyzstan
Kyrgyzstan
Education, Legal, Technical & Medical
Native in: Uzbek (Variants: Tashkent, Ferghana valley, Samarkand-Bukhara, Khorezm) 
, Kirghiz
Works in: English to Uzbek, English to Kirghiz, English to Kazakh, and 26 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
mastery vs art
Здесь в контексте есть разница,
mastery vs (fine) art
1. искусство в значении умение, мастерство, тонкое знание дела.
2. художество уже более значение шире здесь
mastery vs (fine) art
1. искусство в значении умение, мастерство, тонкое знание дела.
2. художество уже более значение шире здесь
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
The Misha
: You are splitting hairs for no good reason. There is no such "уже более значение шире здесь". .
9 hrs
|
|
Thanks so much for your humble opinion, better to convey the meaning than translating just synonyms
|
Reference comments
1 hr
Igor Andreev
Native in Russian
Native in: Russian
Works in: English to Russian, Ukrainian to Russian, English to Ukrainian
Reference:
художество
Следует также различать определения: искусный, искусство и более узкое "художество". Их отождествление приводит к путанице и смешению разных категорий, что особенно нежелательно в области декоративно-прикладного искусства и художественных ремесел. Под словом "искусство" мы понимаем искусную, умелую деятельность вообще (например, искусство вождения автомобиля, кулинарное, парикмахерское искусство); "художество" — деятельность по созданию исключительно художественных образов.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Oleg Lozinskiy
8 hrs
|
|
Спасибо, хотя The Misha в чем-то определенно прав в отношении любви к словоизлияниям в определенных кругах, мне однако приходилось сталкиваться и с англоязычными текстами подобного вида )
|
|
| agree |
Turdimurod Rakhmanov
: Да именно, есть разница, второй-по созданию исключительно художественных образов, первый mastery, skill в этом контексте
10 hrs
|
|
Спасибо!
|
Discussion
They deeply (enormously) like their craft counting it (considering it) as exceptional (noble) skill /or mastery/ and art (creativeness)
They are related, let's take a writer as an example, a writer first thinks how, in what way, by means of what he would bring to the attention of readers paying attention to the unity of substance and form. And writer tries to describe the objective reality by means of imageries (or symbols or whatever, maybe pictures). Without those imageries, there is no "художество" (in broader meaning here), without "художество", there is no "искусство" (in broader meaning). Imageries will result in "художество" and "художество" will lead to "искусство". But they both have other shorter meanings which could be translated as "искусство" mastery, skill and "художество" craft and so on. English is not native for me, I could not find more options for this, but understand the meaning