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Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

картиной-репина-приплыли

English translation:

bum life, dismal life, grim reality, ridiculous mess

Added to glossary by Susan Welsh
Apr 25, 2011 12:32
13 yrs ago
Russian term

картиной-репина-приплыли

Russian to English Art/Literary Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
This is about a person longing to escape from a dismal life; she is in an airplane, daydreaming:

Распахнуть бы дверцу да вылететь свободной птицей, чтоб искры задрожали на напряжённых крыльях. Взлететь над «картиной-репина-приплыли» и аккуратно, острым ногтём проведённой дугою, исчезнуть за горизонтом, на фоне закипающих зимних облаков.

I am editing a translation, in which the translator rendered the passage as "to rise above this picturesque landscape and to disappear beyond the horizon..." In other words, the idiom is left out altogether.

Multitran gives: "I guess we've hit rock bottom" or "It can't get any worse."

The painting in question is http://ilya-repin.ru/other/repin25.php

The translator, who is not a native speaker of English, tells me that this phrase was used as a kind of vulgar idiom during perestroika, without people necessarily having any idea about the painting, but to "highlight a confusing situation."

I find it odd that there should be an evocative visual image used as an idiom without people having any image at all of what it is.

Of course I need to figure out how to translate this, but I am more interested in learning about how it is understood as an idiom, who uses it, why, when--its background.

Thanks in advance
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 the translator was right
5 +3 dismal life, right
5 +1 just trying to help
4 +1 all the mess
3 Rise above the grim reality
References
The picture
Change log

Apr 28, 2011 01:39: Susan Welsh changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/625898">Susan Welsh's</a> old entry - "картиной-репина-приплыли"" to ""dismal life, grim reality, ridiculous mess""

Discussion

Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 28, 2011:
@Misha Спасибо. But after all, I've been obsessing over this for about four days. (!)
The Misha Apr 28, 2011:
This is very much the way to go, Susan, and it almost makes me feel jealous. Then again, you are the native here, so at least I have an excuse.
Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 28, 2011:
To fly above the bum life down below... After closing the question, this idea occurred to me, so I put it here for future Kudoz-searchers. It has a slightly humorous/ironic character, like the Russian idiom, and seems to me therefore to be a better choice than the more "grim" options.
Aleksey Chervinskiy Apr 26, 2011:
Sounds like She'd like to fly above the shite that's hitting the fan:)
rns Apr 26, 2011:
"the proverbial sea of troubles" :)
Alla_K Apr 26, 2011:
why does this sound funny or ironic, even to a person who is not familiar with the painting. During Soviet times Repin was considered as “painter close to ordinary people’s life” because of his realistic style and portraying revolutionaries, workers, peasants etc. So his reproduced pictures were on every corner: in schools, public places, school textbooks. They were part of the background even part of the propaganda (I do not blame Repin, he is really a great painter). So every Russian (even if he/she is not interested in painting at all) knows that Repin is a great Russian painter famous by his dramatic pictures (for example, the picture you have sent me the link to, Бурлаки, was perceived as a cliché as you could see it everywhere along with the three epical heroes of other well-known painter). Comparing a real life's dramatic situation with Repin’s picture seems funny as there is recognizability (looks like the life is a parody of the picture). Generally lots of humoristic works are based on parodying of serious dramatic pieces of art. I think, in your translation you could mention some dramatic picture or literature work or a well known author (Shakespeare?) or fairly tale expression, if relevant.
Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 26, 2011:
@ Misha Oh yes, I've long ago abandoned the notion that Repin should be in the translation (see above, my proposal on "shit's creek"), and I do understand the basic meaning of the phrase. What I'm trying to grasp is how best to choose "an authentic equivalent" that does not eliminate the colorful quality of the original. But I'm still struggling to see what that colorful quality is, since I find it such an odd idiom. (But then, my husband points out to me that we have English idioms such as "a Hobson's choice," which most people understand, even though they have no clue who "Hobson" was--nor do I.)
The Misha Apr 26, 2011:
Also, please mind that all this Repin-related stuff rings absolutely no bell with the English-speaking audience. Try to think of an authentic equivalent, like that's it, finita, end of the line.
Denis Shepelev Apr 26, 2011:
As rns already wrote, the keyword here is "приплыли" and the whole phrase has nothing to do with Repin or his paintings.

I think that the author used this phrase to show the hopelessness and desperation of the world (reality) the woman is living in. So instead of "this picturesque landscape" of the original translator I would use "grim, desperate, hopeless reality"
rns Apr 26, 2011:
You can get away with Repin's painting as the keyword is "приплыли", which is also used separately in the same meaning, and the painting is there to exaggerate.

"To fly above this vale of sorrows" seems to be adequate if overly poetic, but she's daydreaming so it's ok.

"fly my way out of this whole mess" comes to mind.
Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 26, 2011:
My original attempt, and a new one I had originally edited the translation (not realizing this was a set expression, thinking it was an invention of the author) to read: "To fly above this vale of sorrows, this dismal image of Repin's painting...."

What do you think of the following variant?:

"To fly above `shit's creek'...."

It is more crude than the Russian, but the woman is daydreaming, not talking to someone, so it might be appropriate, even if she would not normally talk that way. (It gets the "river" in there.)
rns Apr 26, 2011:
In the immediate context, the woman seems to think along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escapism. She just had enough.
Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 26, 2011:
@Alla on irony That's interesting. For sure the Приплыли not-by-Repin painting is funny, whether the person who uses the idiom knows the origin of the expression or not. In my source text, the scene is for sure not a happy one, but the woman does have courage and determination, so perhaps she is saying this to herself with some grim humor. EDIT: Alla, why does this sound funny or ironic, even to a person who is not familiar with the painting?
Alla_K Apr 26, 2011:
one more important point Repin's pictures (including "не ждали") aren often full of real drama or even tragedy. The expression we are talking about is ironic that is often used in not really dramatic but funny situation so a smile in reply is expected. If it is used in a really dramatic situation than it possibly means that a person who says it is capable to be ironic in cheerless conditions.
Kiwiland Bear Apr 25, 2011:
Agree with other responders In normal everyday usage this expression has little if anything to do with that painting. To be honest, it took me a few moments to even realise what any picture got to do with it. It's just an expression, used in the sense others have already described.
svetlana cosquéric Apr 25, 2011:
highlight a confusing situation We tried to get something good, but unfortunately we've got what we have got and that's a far cry from our first idea and sometimes even the opposite to that. Tha translator was right.

Proposed translations

+2
26 mins
Selected

the translator was right

There is no Repin's picture with such a name. This is just an expression. There is other picture of Repin that is the pro origin of the expression. The name of that picture is "Haven't expected" or something like that.

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Note added at 30 мин (2011-04-25 13:02:30 GMT)
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http://www.google.com.ua/imgres?imgurl=http://www.biblioteka...

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Note added at 34 мин (2011-04-25 13:06:16 GMT)
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I remember that some time before the expression "картина Репина "не ждали" had been used instead of "картина Репина "Приплыли". Later the expression was transformed though the meaning is the same: something unexpectadly and unpleasant at the same time.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 час (2011-04-25 19:30:10 GMT)
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http://otvet.mail.ru/question/23963967/ - here is a forum devoted to "картина Репина "Приплыли" topic. Most of the people recognize that there is no Repin's picture with such name. This is just an expression.

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Note added at 7 час (2011-04-25 19:37:28 GMT)
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So maybe it makes sense to replace "to rise above this picturesque landscape" by "to rise above this {proper epitet} situation" - or something like that depending on the wider context.
Note from asker:
Actually, I thought it must be this painting, which seems very evocative of people who are "having a bad day" (in 21st century parlance): http://ilya-repin.ru/master/repin3.php The one you identified, "Не Ждали", is quite an amazing painting. But the translator told me that was not the right painting.
Sorry, I wrote my note wrong. Here's what it was supposed to say:Actually, I thought it must be this painting, which seems very evocative of people who are "having a bad day" (in 21st century parlance): http://ilya-repin.ru/master/repin3.php But the translator told me that was not the right painting. The one you identified, "Не Ждали", is quite an amazing painting.
Peer comment(s):
agree tschingite
2 hrs
Спасибо, tschingite!
agree natalia gavrile
15 hrs
Спасибо, Наталия!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "You all have been helpful and I found this discussion fascinating, even though I think the translations are inadequate (and can't think of a better one). I am "grading" Alla as the most helpful because of the insights she offered into the culture behind the idiom; but if it were allowed, I would give points to several others also! Thanks"
+3
25 mins

dismal life, right

First of all, the painting at http://ilya-repin.ru/other/repin25.php is NOT by Repin. You can find an explanation on the same website:
"...Картину, о которой идет речь написал не И.Репин, а Соловьев Лев Григорьевич (1839-1919). Картина называется "Монахи" ("Не туда заехали")..." (http://ilya-repin.ru/priplyli.php).

As to the idiom, the connotation offered by your translator seems to me to be as accurate as possible. Though I am sure I've heard this expression long before perestroyka.

Instead of 'oh shit!', a semi-educated working class person prone to fanciful expressions may exclaim: 'картина маслом!', or your 'картина Репина "Приплыли"!', or simply 'приплыли!' when facing an uncomfortable or even dangerous situation
Note from asker:
Peter wrote "...or simply 'приплыли!' when facing an uncomfortable or even dangerous situation." Ah! "Up shit's creek!" I guess that's how the priests in their boat felt, when they encountered the bathing beauties.
Peter, are you serious, that a semi-educated working-class person would say "oil painting!" as an expletive instead of "oh, shit!"? There is something I'm not getting about Russia humor.
Peer comment(s):
agree Irene Fridman
2 hrs
thanks
agree The Misha : Absolutely. This is essentially a colorful way of saying "this is a total dead end". Yet another, more risque way of saying it would be "polnyi pi-dets. Do they still say that?
3 hrs
pizdets it is )))
agree cyhul
16 hrs
thanks
Something went wrong...
19 hrs

Rise above the grim reality

Just a thought.
Something went wrong...
+1
2 hrs
Russian term (edited): картина Репина "Приплыли"

all the mess

as in "rise above all the mess" — http://goo.gl/OJjCo

As far as I know, the meaning of "картина Репина "Приплыли" is "And here is what it all came to".

The keyword is "приплыл" as in "Он был как все, он плыл как все и вот он приплыл — ни дома, ни друзей, ни врагов" — А. Макаревич. — a moment when is becomes clear that something has ended contrary to the intent, just as in the picture with the churchmen, who floated their boat where women bathed.

"картина Репина "Приплыли" may also refer to a situation, which can be described as a total loss.

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Note added at 1 day1 min (2011-04-26 12:33:49 GMT)
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This another meaning is sort of fixed in what Multitran gives: "I guess we've hit rock bottom" or "It can't get any worse." as you said in your question.

What Makarevich say is basically that "he just went with the flow and here is what the flow get him to: nothing special, no home, no (real) friends, no (real) enemies."

The meaning is that if you just go with the flow you would be unpleasantly surprised or, worse, fail miserably.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day3 mins (2011-04-26 12:35:26 GMT)
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And feel free to ask more as needed: I absolutely love it when a native English speaker is trying to really understand Russian.
Note from asker:
I don't understand Makarevich's usage of "приплыл." All my dictionaries, online and offline, give the meaning as simply sailing or swimming. Obviously there is another meaning here to which you are referring, when you say that this is the key word in the expression. I don't understand. (Sorry if I'm boring everybody to death!)
Peer comment(s):
agree Rachel Douglas : + maybe an adjective before "mess," drawing on the context. "The ridiculous mess." "All this confusion." Trying to preserve the allusion could confuse the reader; finding an English parallel would likely wreck the Russianness of the narrative.
8 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
+1
14 hrs

just trying to help

You are absolutely right, Susan. The translator gives you the explanation, but the style is missing from translation. Russian text sounds like a poem (reminds me of Gogol a little bit).
Even if there is no direct English equivalent for this idiom you could try to translate a "scent", you know what I mean

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Note added at 1 day9 hrs (2011-04-26 21:33:25 GMT)
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Not knowing anything but couple sentences it may be hard...
but if I simply ignore this idiom I see this young lady as a dreamer with artistic vision. Idiom (as it seems to me) attaches her to reality and adds the healthy self-irony which may be promising.

The expression belongs to a category of popular absurds. It is funny because it easily connects things, that are not connected and it may remind you a phrase from a high school essay the whole class used to laugh about.
Please, let me know if it helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2011-04-27 00:04:10 GMT)
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The last native-speaker-version you mention may originate from the way you ask your question. Your first phrase:"This is about a person longing to escape from a dismal life" is exactly what they are based on (or using another russian idiom - where they dance from).
Note from asker:
Ah, but what do you "smell" when you hear this expression? Do you agree with Alla that it sounds funny? Why is it funny?
Thank you, that is helpful. This is the kind of "smell" I was hoping to get when I posted the question to Kudoz (rather than just leaving it the boring way I had it, but without the reference to Repin's painting). The funny thing is that some of you native speakers (and others I've consulted elsewhere) think of it as absurd/funny, whereas others stress the dismal, end-of-the-line, hopeless quality of that which she seeks to fly over.
Peer comment(s):
agree Alla_K : yes, the scent is essetial here
3 hrs
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Reference comments

20 mins
Reference:

The picture

The picture exists, but it's not by Repin.

... В этой связи вспоминается нечто куда как более близкое — знаковая картина, составившая добрую часть российского фольклора и миропонимания.

Эта легендарная картина, ставшая частью народного фольклора, не принадлежит кисти Репина. Ее написал художник Лев Григорьевич Соловьев (1839-1919). Картина называется "Монахи ("Не туда заехали")". Датируется 1870-ми годами. Холст, масло. 52 см х 78,5 см. Поступила в Сумской художественный музей до 1938 г. Со слегка измененным авторством и названием она и вошла в поговорки.
http://www.apn.ru/special/article23833.htm
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