| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | AI: Apparent consensus among freelancers who have tried it: It can be really useful. But be careful. Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
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| Didn't explain myself properly... | Nov 3, 2023 |
Kay Denney wrote:
Well, it is good at making sentences that sound like they make sense. If you need a bland style, sure.
My USP is my compelling creative flair, my rich vocabulary, my ability to come up with powerful puns and meaningful metaphors. I can produce translations that are far more interesting to read than anything Chatgpt comes up with.
I did try it once, just out of curiosity, and discarded all but three words of the drivel it produced.
Since I'm not native in English, ChatGPT helps me rewriting texts in English, making them sound more appealing. Granted, it might sounds rather flat to a native speaker, but I'm not looking for a perfect style.
| | | | | Experts on methodology: Which of the findings is wrong? | Nov 3, 2023 |
Thanks for the feedback on the survey methodologies. It is good to know that we have a number of experts on market research and data analytics here among us. 
I am curious to know whether you actually quibble with the findings, though? If you have data demonstrating that something about the following statements is wrong, please share it:
* Many people have not tried it
* Many of those who have tried it say things like "Try it, it (can be/is) useful." and "Be careful because it is sometimes wrong."
| | | | texjax DDS PhD 
Local time: 13:36
Member (2006)
English to Italian
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Henry Dotterer wrote: I am curious to know whether you actually quibble with the findings, though? If you have data demonstrating that something about the following statements is wrong, please share it: * Many people have not tried it
* Many of those who have tried it say things like "Try it, it (can be/is) useful." and "Be careful because it is sometimes wrong."
Statistically speaking, many is meaningless.
You are presenting quantitative data, which by definition are numbers.
So your findings, as presented so far, have little value.
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 19:36
Member (2009)
English to German
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| Vous avez dit "pollution" ? | Nov 4, 2023 |
Zea_Mays wrote:
Furthermore, as I already asked we would need to know what is meant here with "AI"?
I had also asked the question some time ago and the staff modified its original question by specifying that it was about ChatGPT and others, making my question difficult to understand since the initial quote of the initial question was deleted from my post:
https://www.proz.com/forum/ai_for_translators_and_interpreters/364228-are_you_managing_to_use_ai_in_your_work_to_your_benefit_and_the_benefit_of_your_clients.html#3015493
Doesn't matter, but it confirms that there's an obsession with ChatGPT from the staff side, which has been polluting this site for several weeks, if not longer.
The most obvious is the introduction of ChatGPT in Kudoz, which is boundless nonsense. Once again, it doesn't matter: let's just say that the absurdity isn't the presence of the robot in the kudoz - it's better not to even think about it, and leave the pleasure of its presence to its authors - but that of so-called translators who have the weakness to believe that it can help them.
The best thing to do is to stop talking about the issue and to make it clear to the staff that it's not in anyone's interest to mix things up: artificial intelligence is not the issue, but the way it's used, with tools that have been hijacked from their intended purpose. ChatGPT is not a translation tool, and if some people, like the staff, pretend not to understand it, there's really something to worry about. Not so much for the translators as for the entities that convey this kind of whim.
The robot recognized that American is not my language of communication!
| | | | | That is a strong position, Aurélien. Can you share more? | Nov 4, 2023 |
Aurélien ARPAZ wrote:
... let's just say that the absurdity isn't the presence of the robot in the kudoz... but that of so-called translators who have the weakness to believe that it can help them.
ChatGPT is not a translation tool...
Thanks, Aurélien! This is such a strong statement, it makes me curious to know more. There are many translators here using ChatGPT in connection with their work, and I don't think that that makes them "weak", or "so-called". Is it the case that you have confirmed that ChatGPT can not help you in your work at all? How were you able to determine that?
(Note that I'm not thinking about ChatGPT in KudoZ, but ChatGPT in general. If your remarks were specifically about ChatGPT in KudoZ, ok, I understand your point.)
| | | | | Impossible to keep it short | Nov 5, 2023 |
By the way, the term "inclusive" is still used here: Thank you for participating in this "inclusive"-type thread. I understood that he had been replaced.
Henry Dotterer wrote:
Is it the case that you have confirmed that ChatGPT can not help you in your work at all? How were you able to determine that?
I can see that we're making progress, but it'll be hard to go any further if you keep mixing everything up: artificial intelligence, ChatGPT, ChatGPT and Kudoz.
1 - Artificial intelligence has been around for years, its importance in many sectors is decisive and it would be ridiculous to deny its usefulness. As I've already mentioned, I use artificial intelligence on a daily basis, as I'm sure everyone else does (and without necessarily realizing it...).
2 - With the exception of certain specialists, nobody was talking about artificial intelligence until ChatGPT appeared a year ago. With a great deal of communication, everything and anything was said. I'm afraid a lot of people didn't understand what it was all about (except, no doubt, Microsoft, which got its hands on OpenAI, and not to write a song about autumn).
What ChatGPT has become for most people looks like a gadget that can be made to do whatever you want, including translation...
This is not what ChatGPT is designed for. Using the tool for what it is is adding resources available to everyone in a very simple way (although this is not proven, the art of the "prompt" is not for everyone), and I don't see why I should do without, either personally or as a translator. It's no coincidence that all browsers now offer their own "copilot" or whatever it's called. There's no reason to decry ChatGPT if you not only know how to use it, but also how to interpret it. If the requester doesn't have the necessary hindsight, it's ultimately as it often is with Google: if the tool says so, then it's so.
Well, no, and this is regularly proven in the references provided in the Kudoz answers (yes, the damage was already done a long time ago). ChatGPT is then nothing more than the reflection of a deculturated and decerebrate society.
3 - As far as Kudoz is concerned, the answer is now clear. All that remains is to make the right decision: whether to consider ChatGPT a useful translation tool against all evidence, and let clueless translators make fools of themselves by activating the option allowing ChatGPT to talk nonsense to them, or to withdraw the tool because it has no place in a terminology mutual aid system. ChatGPT is not a terminologist.
I hope I've made myself clear and answered your question: artificial intelligence is useful, ChatGPT is useful, ChatGPT is incompetent as a translator.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:36
Member (2008)
Italian to English
the survey seems to be inherently biased because those who took part in it have an inbuilt interest and a positive attitude to AI.
I don't think it's credible.
I translate quite a few opinion polls, along with their supporting documents for internal use by interviewers, and I know how rigorous they are.
Did this survey meet recognised international standards for opinion polls, such as those followed by Ipsos?
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| Thanks, Aurélien! | Nov 5, 2023 |
Thanks for taking the time to elaborate your earlier points, Aurélien. I see that you are thoughtful and analytical, you have now made the reasonable allowances, and I respect your conclusions. (My principal difference with your position would be that you seem to be using the point that ChatGPT is not useful in KudoZ (which may well be) to argue that ChatGPT is not "a useful translation tool", full stop. That doesn't necessarily follow, and certainly there are many survey respondents reporting ... See more Thanks for taking the time to elaborate your earlier points, Aurélien. I see that you are thoughtful and analytical, you have now made the reasonable allowances, and I respect your conclusions. (My principal difference with your position would be that you seem to be using the point that ChatGPT is not useful in KudoZ (which may well be) to argue that ChatGPT is not "a useful translation tool", full stop. That doesn't necessarily follow, and certainly there are many survey respondents reporting the opposite.)
At any rate, thank you for your time and feedback! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | ChatGPT is like a gobby teenager that thinks it knows it all | Nov 6, 2023 |
On the video call with Henry the other day he seemed flabbergasted that I didn't use AI in my work at all, so I've been trying it out...
Translation: It gets stuff wrong. No surprises there. Maybe no more than plain MT; I wouldn't know. But it also makes a lot of stuff up. And what about client confidentiality?
Editing: It strikes the wrong tone and makes the text worse every single time, however many prompts it gets. It's like it has a thesaurus shoved up its back pass... See more On the video call with Henry the other day he seemed flabbergasted that I didn't use AI in my work at all, so I've been trying it out...
Translation: It gets stuff wrong. No surprises there. Maybe no more than plain MT; I wouldn't know. But it also makes a lot of stuff up. And what about client confidentiality?
Editing: It strikes the wrong tone and makes the text worse every single time, however many prompts it gets. It's like it has a thesaurus shoved up its back passage and it's going to use it at any cost.
Research: It guesses. Constantly. The more you refine the prompts, the more it just guesses. Google searches are quicker and more targeted.
So basically it's just a cocky amalgam of MT and Google that loves to answer back.
That said, it is amazingly quick and free to use, and way better than many human translators I have seen at translating, writing and researching, so it could definitely be exploited to earn a ton of money in the mass market for less discerning clients. But that's not my scene. I want to enjoy my work.
So I'm with Kay, 100%.
(PS I don't think there's any point in being pedantic about the scientific rigour of the survey; the general conclusion and the aim of the discussion are very clear.)
[Edited at 2023-11-06 18:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 19:36
French to English
Henry Dotterer wrote:
My principal difference with your position would be that you seem to be using the point that ChatGPT is not useful in KudoZ (which may well be) to argue that ChatGPT is not "a useful translation tool", full stop
Aurélien's point 2 was not about Kudoz at all.
ChatGPT is not a translation tool, it's a writing tool. Translators are being replaced by machine translation. It's the people writing the texts that we translate who are being replaced by ChatGPT.
And to answer your question (since this is my last post):
Having honed my style for years, through the proverbial blood sweat and tears, ChatGPT is not useful to me in the least. I tried it when I had to translate something and give it a medieval ring, and it failed miserably to execute my commands. I ended up just asking Google to show me a few Canterbury Tales, and took inspiration from what I read, which is how I always go about trying to imitate a particular style.
And call me old-fashioned, but when checking facts and reading up on the subject of my translation, I like the way Google points me to useful websites. I'll often start with Wiki, and click on the links at the end of the wiki article to find out more. I do have to be discerning when deciding which website to look at, but that comes naturally to me. It's not chatty like ChatGPT but I'm not here for chit-chat, I'm an introvert doing an ideal introvert job and the last thing I want is chit-chat.
So it's not at all useful for me. When you add in that it's often not accurate, well Wiki is a whole lot more accurate. I rest my case.
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 19:36
Italian to English
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| How many Pro translators answered the survey? | Nov 6, 2023 |
If most of the people answering were new to translating they will more likely go "WoW" AI. People taking work in a language that isn't their native tongue will find it a very "helping tool" Shirley.
Did the qualified endorsement came from someone developing an AI API? Sounds very similar to that "Gotta getta AI API" vid.
AI lies, adds more crap-spotting work to the job of rewriting/correcting MT output. If you're going to use a machine, Machine Translation is less time-... See more If most of the people answering were new to translating they will more likely go "WoW" AI. People taking work in a language that isn't their native tongue will find it a very "helping tool" Shirley.
Did the qualified endorsement came from someone developing an AI API? Sounds very similar to that "Gotta getta AI API" vid.
AI lies, adds more crap-spotting work to the job of rewriting/correcting MT output. If you're going to use a machine, Machine Translation is less time-consuming than a Chatbot. ▲ Collapse
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| Thanks, Christopher! | Nov 7, 2023 |
Thanks for doing the research, Christopher! "Gobby" isn't one of my regular words, but it does put a term to what I've felt. I had a laugh at your synonym comment, too, and that also feels accurate.
Being accurate, and not knee-jerk, this is a very useful analysis. It's cause for some optimism (or at least differentiation), so I'll use it, if you don't mind. Thanks!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:36
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| That is exactly the problem | Nov 7, 2023 |
Christopher Schröder wrote:
I don't think there's any point in being pedantic about the scientific rigour of the survey; the general conclusion and the aim of the discussion are very clear.
| | | | Barbara Carrara
Italy
Local time: 19:36
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Still waiting for the statistics behind that apparent consensus | Jan 26 |
Meanwhile, ProZ keeps pushing AI as a 'plus' to attract Premium subscribers.
I still have a standard membership, which I am more and more inclined to discontinue, as this site is nothing like it used to be back in the day.
Anyway, while scrolling down the Premium package page ( https://go.proz.com/premium ), I've noticed how that very same AI survey Henry mentioned in this thread - again without providing any statistics - is brought up once again,
If you read the small print, the 'numbers', and the '45%' stated therein are taken from 'one of the latest ProZ.com industry reports'. So, yet another vague reference to a document, but no hard data or statistics to support the above.
Those documents (a 2022 'report' and a 2023 'overview') are accessible to ProZ paying members, with the overview one referred specifically to '(remote) interpreters', not translators. I haven't accessed either, but wonder why is it so difficult for ProZ to provide those statistics. If they were published, surely it shouldn't be difficult to provide the outcome of the survey...
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