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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

derrames

English translation:

overlap

Added to glossary by Mary Breen
Apr 11, 2010 19:14
14 yrs ago
8 viewers *
Spanish term

derrames

Spanish to English Tech/Engineering Construction / Civil Engineering
Taken from a section on 'Ejecución de la soldadura'

- Figurarán en el procedimiento los criterios de rechazo de soldaduras, indicando que serán 100% rechazables las uniones con grietas, poros, *derrames* o cualquier otro fallo.

Thanks for your help!
Proposed translations (English)
4 overlap
5 +1 spills
4 +2 leaks
References
¡No es tan fácil!

Discussion

Mary Breen (asker) Apr 12, 2010:
Thanks to everyone for your input, it was really helpful to listen to the different ideas. In the end I chose Cindy's as I can find no other technical term within the area of welding defects that seems to come close to the idea of 'derrames'.
margaret caulfield Apr 12, 2010:
Hi, Sergio, I've been unable to reply earlier for I've been out all day. The link you provided is excellent, to an extent that I've actually held onto it for future reference. It's now very clear what an "overlap" is. All we have to do now is to be sure that it's translation is actually "derrame".
Jenni Lukac (X) Apr 12, 2010:
Thanks for your help Sergio, especially the last paragraph. That is how I understood "derrame" as used here, although I must say that when someone with more experience convinces me that I have made an error of interpretation, I'm grateful for the shared knowledge and I take my entry out to avoid confusion. Learning from others is one of the best features of the Kudoz process, far more important than winning a few points. Have a good afternoon!
Sergio Campo Apr 12, 2010:
Margaret, I agree with you about "overlap" and "overflow" having different meanings in their usual general acception. However, in this particular case and context it seems to me that "overlap" might very well refer to the same (or very similar) welding deffect that "derrames" refers to in spanish. If you take a look at his document (http://www.scribd.com/doc/9488085/Welding-Defects, pages 34-35), you will clearly see that the defect it defines as "overlap" is just an overflowing of the weld pool (the face of the weld extends beyond the weld toe, as it puts it). It makes sense to me this could be the same thing as the spanish "derrame".
Anyway, the point I was trying to make before is that, in my opinion, "derrame" here refers to an overflowing or spilling of the weld pool, and not of the liquid that the element being welded might eventually come to contain.
margaret caulfield Apr 12, 2010:
Sorry! I meant to say "even though" (I'm in a rush to go out at the moment!).
margaret caulfield Apr 12, 2010:
Cindy, I think last night (Spanish time) I gave you every proof that I had read them. I insist that there's a big difference between "overlap" and "overspill", even thow you mentioned the verb "spill over".
tazdog (X) Apr 12, 2010:
Overlap = overflow Margaret, if you'd read any of the definitions I posted, you would see that overlap DOES mean overflow in this context (look at the first link I posted in my answer: "spills over" = "overflows"). Here's another (and there are lots): "The overlap defect is formed when the molten metal overflows the weld pool and solidifies on
the top surface of the work piece without fusing to the base metal." http://mme.uwaterloo.ca/~camj/pdf/Weckman Papers/(2006) Revi...
margaret caulfield Apr 12, 2010:
Sergio, There's a very big difference between "overflow" and "overlap". Cindy is suggesting the latter.
Sergio Campo Apr 12, 2010:
It might have to do with electronics, or with any other field for the matter in hand. Welding obviously has thousands of applications across many types of industries. IMO "derrames" must refer to the the excessive or unnecessary "spilling" or "overflowing" (as you and Cindy are suggesting) of the welding material to adjacent areas of the elements being welded or soldered (not too much context about this either, but I would think we are talking about welding here). I don't think "spatter" is a good candidate in this case (I take "spatter" more for what we call "salpicaduras" in spanish), and I don't know if there is a specific technical term in english for "derrames" in this context.
Jenni Lukac (X) Apr 12, 2010:
Sergi, I thought it might have to do with electronics, although my answer "spills" (that could also be described as "overflow" as Cindy has mentioned), could describe the same defect that ruins an electronics board or a piece of art: flecks or pools of solder spattered on the object that makes it ugly or harms the surface or other elements of the piece. I've soldered as an artist and in an IBM transistor board plant in the seventies (wow that dates me!) and I was basing my entry on my experience as well as general knowledge. I realize that there are many other soldering applications (and problems) I can't even imagine.
Sergio Campo Apr 12, 2010:
Margaret, Why are you (and other people) supposing the ST is speaking about pipe (or any other liquid-containing element) welding specifically? Am I missing something?
margaret caulfield Apr 12, 2010:
Cindy, I entirely agree that this can ALSO be "overflows" (of course, not "overlaps") in such case and in many others. We can simply have "derrames" when pouring coffee or boiling liquids! But in this context, it's not the case.
tazdog (X) Apr 12, 2010:
Description of "derrames" as a welding defect "Derrame de material por los bordes de la pieza: normalmente por un sobrecalentamiento como consecuencia de una selección inadecuada de los parámetros de soldadura en el equipo de electrofusión. También puede ocurrir por presencia de humedad, por la no utilización de posicionadores durante la soldadura, la utilización de posicionadores no adecuados, o por retirar el posicionador antes de dejar enfriar la soldadura por su natural o por deficiente colocación del accesorio." According to this definition, it doesn't refer to leaks, but to overflows.
margaret caulfield Apr 11, 2010:
Así lo veo yo.
claudia16 (X) Apr 11, 2010:
más información Creo que todos los términos se refieren a tipos de defectos de soldaduras y el "derrame" se refiere a fugas que se pueden producir por grietas,porosidad etc. Incluso se hacen "tests de fuga" para comprobar la integridad de la soldadura. La palabra más usada es "leaks" pero nno se refiere a derrame del material de soldadura sino a lo que sea que será contenido por ;a soldadura.

Ejemplo:
check all weld seams by non-destructive examination such as a PT test or a leak test...However, weld failures can also be indirect causes for leaks in liners. Weld failures may promote the formation of leaks, e.g. by hidden weld pores in the middle of the weld.
...The two weld assemblies were x-rayed and found to be acceptable. They were then leak tested to 1.3 x 10-11 atm cc/s helium and passed.
margaret caulfield Apr 11, 2010:
Again I must insist after looking this up on I.A.T.E. There is only 1 hit mentioning "lap" (of different types - none of which are "overlap").
margaret caulfield Apr 11, 2010:
Also, I really must add that, from my own experience, I.A.T.E is most definitely NOT 100% reliable.

Overlap is "superposición", among others. Please see: www.wordmagicsoft.com/.../en.../overlapping.php or es.bab.la/diccionario/ingles-espanol/overlap-hybridisation
or diccionario.reverso.net/ingles-espanol/overlap. I'm sure there are other translations if we look further, but I don't think "overlap" means "derrame".
margaret caulfield Apr 11, 2010:
Kevin, Personally, I was not imagining welding being done while there was anything inside the pipe or whatever. That most certainly was not my understanding. Welding jobs are, obviously, checked for quality once their finished and one of the checks carried out is done so by filling the pipe, etc. with liquid to ensure that there are no spills, spillages or leaks (all are derrames). I really don't know why you thought we understood this to be during the welding process!!! Sounds rather strange to me!
Kevin Melody Apr 11, 2010:
I agree with Roberto. This sentence is listing reasons for rejecting a defective weld, one of which would be a "derrame". It doesn't make sense that the welding would be done when there is something in the pipe/container, etc., that could spill or leak, nor would it seem to matter if any if welding material "spills" to the ground during the process. It's about quality control of finished welds, and Cindy seems to have the best translation for that particular kind of defect. Nice job, Cindy. :)

Proposed translations

28 mins
Selected

overlap

"Lap" (or variations thereof) is one possible translation of "derrame" (according to IATE - http://iate.europa.eu/iatediff/SearchByQuery.do). I found this info. on weld defects (which is what your text is talking about):

Defects in Weld Profile (cont)
Overlap – weld pool spills over onto surface of part
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4ae8Hm8...

Overlap. Overlap, the term used when the edge of the weld is loose and extends over the base metal, is caused by poor fusion. If the overlap is very small and if the weld need not have its full strength, the weld may be accepted. If the overlap is large or if the full strength of the weld is needed, the weld should be removed and a new weld made.
http://www.scdot.org/doing/ConstructionManual/pdfs/Division ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2010-04-12 05:34:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Description in Spanish of what "derrames" are as a welding defect. "Grietas y poros" are also on this list:

***Derrame*** de material por los bordes de la pieza: normalmente por un sobrecalentamiento como consecuencia de una selección inadecuada de los parámetros de soldadura en el equipo de electrofusión. También puede ocurrir por presencia de humedad, por la no utilización de posicionadores durante la soldadura, la utilización de posicionadores no adecuados, o por retirar el posicionador antes de dejar enfriar la soldadura por su natural o por deficiente colocación del accesorio.
http://www.hcenergia.com/recursos/doc/Colaboradores/Proveedo...

This doc. also lists the same description as one of the "no conformidades".

10) Derrame de material por los bordes del accesorio.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:zoN5F2uIxZ4J:www.s...

Another definition of "overlap".

Overlap: An imperfection at the weld toe of a weld caused by molten metal flowing on to the surface of the parent material without fusing to it.
http://www.hera.org.nz/Category?Action=View&Category_id=513

My conclusion is that "derrames" as defined in the Spanish docs. on welding defects definitely does not refer to "leaks"; "overlaps", on the other hand, could apply.
Peer comment(s):
disagree margaret caulfield : Sorry, Cindy. Having looked at the only hit on I.A.T.E. mentioning different types of laps, and at the rest of your references, I don't think this is the correct term here.
2 hrs
I will stand by my answer, thanks. Further investigation led to the definition of what "derrames" are as a welding defect, and it refers to an overflow of the material, definitely not leaks. Refs. posted above.
agree Roberto Rey : You nailed it Cindy
15 hrs
Thanks, Roberto
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Cindy"
+1
5 mins

spills

Example: PDF] MSDS SheetFormato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Vista rápida
Leaks or spills must be contained and covered with sand, special pads are then ... grinding and / or soldering unless they have taken the necessary precautions. .... Las fugas o derrames deben ser contenidos y recogidos con arena o ...
www.haldex.com/.../BARDAHL_HDS_2_Automatic_Transmission.pdf - Similares;

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2010-04-11 19:22:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

another example: SpanishOxyfuel Brazing & Soft Soldering: Bronze Welding In Flat & Horizontal ..... Small Spills And Leaks, Los Derrames Menores, SSL000, DVD/VHS, SE .... Team Nightmares: Solutions To Your Top Team Problems Part I, TMW008, DVD/VHS, HR ...
www.coastal.com/site/gcl/global-course.../spanish.html - En caché
Peer comment(s):
agree Leonardo Lamarche : agree. welding spills
2 mins
Good evening and thanks, Leonardo.
agree EirTranslations
3 mins
Cheers and thanks, Beatriz.
disagree Roberto Rey : It really doesn't make much sense that a weld is going to spill... it must have a technical name that is exactly a "spill" and you ref. is about spills in general, not welding. It referes to the weld itself not to it spilling on the ground.
4 mins
I did a lot of soldering and welding as a sculptor and art professor in a former life and I know by personal experience that flux, solder and everything else drips, flies, splatters, and messes up the work and the workspace.
Something went wrong...
+2
1 hr

leaks

Since it's talking about welding, I think "leaks" would fit for (derrames de) either liquid or gas substances
Peer comment(s):
agree eski : Much more likely; I'd think: The text mentions cracks, etc. whiuch would cause a leak in the (welded or soldered) union.Saludos, Margaret
20 mins
Thanks, eski. This is how I understand it. Saludos a tí también!
agree claudia16 (X)
3 hrs
Gracias, Claudia.
agree Kevin Melody : Upon taking a second look, I think your reasoning has merit. Nice work.
4 hrs
Many thanks, Kevin.
disagree Roberto Rey : I have to go with Cindy..no way it leaks...YES! thank God! Un abrazo.
15 hrs
No problem, Roberto. 2 things are still free: opinions and taste.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

23 mins
Reference:

¡No es tan fácil!

La soldadura tiene su ciencia, esto no es decir que hay un derrame y listo.
Se dictan cursos enteros de la técnica y como reconocer fallas. "Spills" debe ser un nombre no técnico al fenómeno y no creo que sea simplemente derrame. Ademas nunca he oído que una soldadura se derrame. Y si cae el piso que importa? Se trata es de la calidad de la soldadura misma no que se derrame al piso.
Reference:

http://www.aendur.ancap.com.uy/boletin/CaliSolda.pdf

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree cranesfreak
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
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