This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
Look what you\'ve done.....
One more elaborated shape or a more elaborated shape...?

Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

P.R. (Provincial Road) or the P.R.

English answer:

east of the SP

    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2019-08-31 14:54:07 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Aug 28, 2019 14:13
4 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

P.R. (Provincial Road) or the P.R.

Non-PRO English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
I would like to know if this sentence sounds better with or without "the".

Its transportation network has determined a breakdown of the territory: east of (the) P.R. 13 we find the historical centre and the residential area.
Responses
4 +4 east of the SP
4 the P.R.
4 east of the P.R. 13
4 SP (no definite article)
Change log

Aug 28, 2019 15:02: philgoddard changed "Language pair" from "Italian to English" to "English"

Aug 28, 2019 21:49: Yvonne Gallagher changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Tony M, B D Finch, Yvonne Gallagher

When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.

How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:

An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)

A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).

Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.

When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.

* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.

Discussion

B D Finch Aug 29, 2019:
@Asker What do you mean by "the breaking of the territory"? That is just not coherent or comprehensible English!
Marika Quarti (asker) Aug 29, 2019:
I thought to: "The transport network caused the breaking of the territory".
Mark Robertson Aug 29, 2019:
@B D Finch You will have to see the source text. "determined a breakdown of the territory" is a bit of a puzzle.
Marika Quarti (asker) Aug 29, 2019:
1) It's English UK
2) I opt for "the SP 13" as you suggested.
3) Finch: "Suggest a better way to say what I translated, please"
B D Finch Aug 29, 2019:
@Björn As the Asker is Italian and, presumably, has translated this herself from Italian to English, the inconsistencies aren't surprising. I hadn't realised that "transportation" was the US way of saying "transport", but the whole sentence looks wrong to me.
Björn Vrooman Aug 28, 2019:
PS Though I'm also wondering what EN variant the asker is/was looking for, since "centre" is clearly British English but "transportation" is not (if I remember correctly, it should be the shorter "transport").

Best
Björn Vrooman Aug 28, 2019:
RE UK/US difference It gets even more complicated. If you're from SoCal, it's just a number, e.g., "the 5":
https://www.kcet.org/shows/lost-la/the-5-the-101-the-405-why...

Canadians use the definite article, AFAIK. Cf
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229232

In any case, I'm not sure there is a clear-cut answer to this question. After all, these roads are not in an English-speaking country.

Since I was curious, I looked up how American news organizations refer to German autobahns (e.g., A67),

Here, it's "highway A3":
https://www.nbcnews.com/http://www.nbcnews.com/slideshow/sno...

Now, "the A5 Autobahn":
https://www.foxnews.com/world/several-killed-after-truck-rea...

Or "the A14 autobahn":
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/autobahn

Most of the time, I use the truncated version, e.g., the A67 (no "autobahn"), despite the usage of "Take I-67" and "Take 635 to..." and so on.

Maybe it'd be better to spell out the name of the road (if it has one)?

Or, if you say "the SP[number] [type of] road," there is no longer a UK/US difference.

Best wishes
Claudia Mazzoncini Aug 28, 2019:
Good point Phil! Indeed, you don't get your kicks on "the" Route 66! :-)
B D Finch Aug 28, 2019:
@philgoddard We seem to have a US vs. UK difference here again and the Asker hasn't said which version of English she wants to use. On the other hand, "Its transportation network has determined a breakdown of the territory" doesn't sound like either US or UK English! Also, no full stops (periods to you, but that makes it sound like pregnancy ;)).
Mark Robertson Aug 28, 2019:
Tiverton What nonsense! Tiverton is on the A361!
:)
https://www.viamichelin.com/web/Routes/Route-Exeter-_-Devon-...
philgoddard Aug 28, 2019:
Here are some examples from the US, just so we don't get too fixated on the UK!

CR stands for county road, and the definite article is omitted.

From Tiverton take CR 20 to left on CR 401
http://www.kaufman-auctions.com/project/details/49458/

Follow CR 50 for about 3 miles to CR 5001
http://www.endorphinresorts.com/map.html

Responses

+4
1 hr
Selected

east of the SP

Abbreviations of this type are not normally "translated" and when the pronunciation is the name of the letter(s) they take the definite article.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
5 mins
Thank you Tony
agree Mirelluk
12 mins
Thank you
agree B D Finch : Yes, it's rather like the A41 and M25 being transformed into the RN41 and A25 by a French translator. We wouldn't know where we were!
2 hrs
Thanks :)
agree Yvonne Gallagher
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
23 mins

the P.R.

I'd go with the article in this case.

E.g. you'd say "east of the M25", rather than "east of M25"
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Though as Phil and Mark point out, the 'SP' should not be translated
47 mins
Something went wrong...
25 mins

east of the P.R. 13

In English texts referring to motorways I always find the article.
I attach one link, but there are many more examples.
M
Reference:

https://motorwayservicesonline.co.uk/M4

Note from asker:
Ok for "the SP 13"
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Though as Phil and Mark point out, the 'SP' should not be translated
45 mins
Yes, I was thinking about that and then forgot to point it out to the asker. Thanks!
Something went wrong...
57 mins

SP (no definite article)

The abbreviation is SP, strada provinciale, not PR.

I wouldn't use the definite article, because SP stands for something, it's not just a letter like A or B.

If you do use the article, you're effectively saying "east of the provincial road 13", which is wrong.

Note from asker:
It's UK English :)
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Would you take M1 from London to Birmingham or would you take the M1? For the UK, a definite article is needed for a proper name of a road.// Yo get from here to Toulouse, I'd say "Take the RN20", not "Take RN20".//OK: depends if it's US or UK EN.
2 hrs
This is not about the M1. M is a single-letter abbreviation for motorway. SP is a two-letter acronym. Like I said, you wouldn't say "the provincial road 13".
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search