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«¡Al ladrón!»
estaba al acecho
Dec 25, 2021 04:17
2 yrs ago
15 viewers *
Spanish term

así que partió en su calesa...

Spanish to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature Literature.
I would like to know the best translation of this phrase from Latin American Spanish into American English. Translator colleagues from Spain, feel free to send me your suggestions as well. This is a translation about the story of Ali Baba and the 40 thieves.

Is okay to translate it as" so he departed in his calash""

Here is the full paragraph for your review:

agarró a su hermano del chaleco y lo encerró en el almacén que tenían en la entrada de la vivienda, donde guardaban la leña. Allí Alí Babá le contó lo que había sucedido, y el hermano, aunque ya era rico, no podía perder la oportunidad de aumentar su fortuna, así que partió en su calesa a la montaña que Alí Babá le había indicado,
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 so he left/departed in his horse-drawn buggy
4 +1 and so he sped off on his horse-drawn rickshaw
4 and he left in his chariot

Discussion

yugoslavia (asker) Jan 1, 2022:
Thanks again Thanks for your help Simone and Marcelo. Happy New year 2022 to you and your families!
Yugoslavia
Simone Taylor Dec 28, 2021:
I know this is largely done, but being a museum worker, I can't do that. I always try to be faithful to the time the piece is set and, if necessary, educate the client to that respect.
Marcelo González Dec 28, 2021:
Translation as adaptation "...on the ST manipulation of Latin translators in Classical Antiquity, Nietzsche (1882/1974) states:

As poets […] they had no time for all those very personal things and names and whatever might be considered the costume and mask of a city, a coast or a century: quickly, they replaced it with what was contemporary and Roman. […] Indeed, translation was a form of conquest. Not only did one omit what was historical; one also added allusions to the present […].
(qtd. in Venuti ed. 67)

Similarly, in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries in Egypt “adaptation […] involved even changing the setting and names of characters in Molière’s plays” in Arabic translations from the French (Baker 1997: 323)" ("Metaphor and Agency" 2015: 94).
https://bridges.monash.edu/articles/thesis/Metaphor_and_agen...
Simone Taylor Dec 27, 2021:
As I said, I won't get annoyed about historical inaccuracies because it is no point. Yesterday I got annoyed, but I am back to my fair policy, adhering to ProZ etiquette, agreeing to what I think is appropriate, regardless of who posted it. I live and breathe as I would like the world to be. I work with History. It is my speciality, so I always try to help and contribute as much as possible in this respect. If people are going to listen, it is not my problem. There is also the aspect that the asker does say US English, and people in the US don't usually go as deep in History as we do here in England. For example, we see the word renaissance, used for anything from the dark ages, middle ages to early twentieth century or hear "Your Majesty" at any time in History when the term started being used in the sixteenth century. But that is another story altogether.
Simone Taylor Dec 27, 2021:
Carts, waggons and chariots are easily understood as well.
Marcelo González Dec 27, 2021:
@Simone - Thanks Interesting comments. I'm not so sure how much something like historical accuracy would come into play in this context. That is, there may be reason to believe it might be more about the story here. In terms of a translation approach that might be preferred in this context, I'd imagine it could be a 'domesticating' approach here, hence my suggestion of '...carriage' -- an easily understood term in contemporary English, regardless of variety.
Simone Taylor Dec 27, 2021:
@Marcelo, carriages did not exist at the time this story is set; chariots did. This is the same argument as using "police" on the other thread from this asker. Ali Baba is set at the time of the Mongol invasion, even though it was written in the 19th century. The problem is that the original is already historically incorrect. Then there is the issue that this is a second-hand translation. So I will contribute with the English part, but when it comes to the history, I won't go into more discussion because it really is not worth it. Even as far back as the Scythians, you find chariots, carts or waggons, not carriages.
Marcelo González Dec 27, 2021:
@Simone Someone may have agreed with my '...or carriage' suggestion (included in my original post), as 'horse-drawn carriage' would appear to be a very suitable option. The question of avoiding 'strong geographical connotations' is valid. Whenever I hear 'chariot,' I can't help but think of (the film) "Chariots of Fire" and such. It'd be interesting to hear what images and associations a term like 'calesa' might evoke for native speakers of the source language. Cheers from Vietnam :-)
Simone Taylor Dec 26, 2021:
chariot
/ˈtʃarɪət/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a two-wheeled vehicle drawn by horses, used in ancient racing and warfare.
Simone Taylor Dec 26, 2021:
So someone prefers chariot but votes for buggy instead of voting for chariot, which is already horse-drawn anyway so no need to say that. No logic.

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
Selected

so he left/departed in his horse-drawn buggy

or '...carriage'

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Note added at 21 hrs (2021-12-26 02:15:54 GMT)
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After considering a bit more this question of geographical connotations, as ormiston kindly and astutely points out in one of his or her agrees, 'carriage' may indeed be preferable. 'Rckshaw' and 'chariot' may both come with a certain associative or connotative load, conjuring up images of the Far East and Roman and Greek warfare and competition, respectively.

For a U.S. target audience, 'horse-drawn buggy' may be especially useful; that said, 'horse-drawn carriage' may be a better option for a more international target audience.

He left/departed in his horse-drawn carriage

My pleasure, yugoslavia. Merry Christmas to you, too :-)

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Note added at 2 days 5 hrs (2021-12-27 09:21:41 GMT)
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Another question might the size of a 'calesa'; that is, if they're for two people at the most, 'horse-drawn wagon' may be another option.
Note from asker:
Thanks for your help Marcelo.Merry Christmas!!
Peer comment(s):
agree ormiston : I prefer carriage. Agree but I don't want to offend with a comment.
10 hrs
Many thanks, ormiston. And yes, 'carriage' may indeed be preferable. And I agree with your comment on the strong geographical connotations of 'rickshaw.' I suppose the same or perhaps a similar comment might be made about the connotation of 'chariot.'
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
5 hrs

and he left in his chariot

A kalesa is a two-wheeled horse-drawn carriage used in the Philippines. It is commonly vividly painted and decorated. It was a primary mode of public and private transportation during the Spanish colonial era of the Philippines, though, in modern times, they largely only survive as tourist attractions

The equivalent in Ali Baba's contest and time would be a chariot.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-12-25 09:47:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry misspelt it. I meant context!
Note from asker:
Thanks Simone.Merry Christmas!!
Something went wrong...
+1
6 hrs

and so he sped off on his horse-drawn rickshaw

Note from asker:
Thanks Andrew. Merry Christmas!!
Peer comment(s):
agree ormiston : ormiston: I much prefer carriage, given the strong geographical connotations of rickshaw
5 hrs
Thank you! " made off on his horse-drawn carriage" is another option which occurs to me as valid here.
Something went wrong...
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