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sans notion d'immatriculation
sur part
This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Dec 8, 2022 23:29
1 yr ago
38 viewers *
French term

matériel/immatériel

French to English Bus/Financial Automotive / Cars & Trucks Vehicle leasing contract
This concerns telematics boxes fitted to long-term fleet hire cars

La Prestation Télématique est constituée de deux éléments, l'un matériel, l'autre immatériel définis ci-après.

Paraphrasing the two "éléments" (I have used "components") that follow, these are:

(1) The supply, fitting and commissioning of telematics boxes
(2) Collecting and analysing the data provided by the boxes and providing it to the hirer

Pleeez, will some over-zealous bruiser kindly refrain from telling me these are two separate terms and should be in two separate questions...

Material/immaterial - sounds awful
Hardware/software - doesn't really cut it

Is there something better "out there"?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 physical/intangible
3 +2 equipment/service
4 tangible hardware system (the equipment) / intangible software system
4 tangible vs intangible (components of a contractual obligation)

Discussion

AllegroTrans (asker) Dec 20, 2022:
After much thought I used hardware/software
Thanks James for the push
Conor McAuley Dec 13, 2022:
That really is one fiddly and probably frustrating text you're translating there, good luck with it!

If you skim-read it and thought you were in for an easy ride (which I might have done)...perhaps there are plenty of doss-easy sections.
Conor McAuley Dec 13, 2022:
I think this is one of those where the French is "meta" and in English you need to get down to brass tacks.
BUT...the two points don't divide neatly, but this is my suggestion:

"one around/concerning parts and labour, the other around/concerning data analysis"
Bourth Dec 10, 2022:
Personally I have no issue with people re-asking questions, since previous answers may be incorrect or incomplete, and because language and technologies change, and because having to sift through answers makes people think (or should). If translation were easy, anybody could do it (can I say that here?).
James A. Walsh Dec 9, 2022:
@Allegro: hardware/software I'm at a loss as to why you think these terms don't really cut it... hardware/software components are precisely what they're referring to here, and any English reader will instantly understand them, so why confuse things with other less familiar terms? Call a spade a spade, I say!
AllegroTrans (asker) Dec 9, 2022:
Phil Your life mission is to check questions against the glossary? I hope ProZ are paying you for this service!! Joking apart, as you know, context is everything and I didn't find anything with a sufficiently similar context. I want something natural-sounding and haven't found it yet
philgoddard Dec 9, 2022:
I know he's no newbie, and his answers are good, but he keeps posting duplicated questions. There are many, many previous ones with similar contexts and similar answers for these two terms.
Cyril Tollari Dec 9, 2022:
Supply of goods and services
Mpoma Dec 9, 2022:
@Phil AllegroT is no newbie here, so there can be little doubt he will have done that and found nothing to his satisfaction for his particular case.
philgoddard Dec 9, 2022:
I'm having to check every one of your questions to make sure they haven't been asked before and I'm not wasting my time. Most of your recent ones have been, including this one. Why not use the glossary?

Proposed translations

+4
38 mins

physical/intangible

"Rather than PHYSICAL ASSETS, the value of digital companies is predominantly derived from INTANGIBLE ASSETS, such as data, intellectual property (IP), software, employee talent and knowledge, and the reputation of the companies themselves."
https://www.mapfre.com/en/insights/commitment/intangible-imp...

Or, I suppose, tangible/intangible, but I'm the sort of underzealous bruiser who likes things physical.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Adrian MM. : physical vs. non-physical https://iate.europa.eu/search/result/1670544959756/1
9 mins
It would do, but I'm not generally a fan of EU terminology in English.
agree philgoddard : Tangible and intangible are fine too.
1 hr
agree Tony M
7 hrs
neutral Johannes Gleim : « matériel » et « immatériel » sont employés comme adjectifs et non comme noms, bien qu'ils désignent des objets matériels et immatériels.
11 hrs
??? Are not 'physical' and 'intangible' adjectives?
agree Kim Metzger
12 hrs
neutral James A. Walsh : Your ref cites "intangible assets" - a somewhat broader concept than what we're dealing with here (in-vehicle systems), so I'd say something more limited like hardware/software would be more likely.
21 hrs
It's an example of physical (whatever) vs intangible (whatever). You can replace 'whatever' by Asker's 'components'.
agree Schtroumpf : And how about physical vs. digital?
4 days
Something went wrong...
+2
1 hr

equipment/service

Or "processing" instead of "service".
Peer comment(s):
agree FPC
6 hrs
agree James A. Walsh : Actually "éléments immatériels" could easily be "services", when I think about it
21 hrs
neutral Daryo : yes, in practical terms it amount to that in this specific contract, but the terms used in the ST are far more general in scope.
8 days
Something went wrong...
12 hrs

tangible hardware system (the equipment) / intangible software system

intangible adj (usage fréquent) Les services sont des biens immatériels. Services are intangible goods.
immaterial adj

La demande d'accès exige que soit identifié le fournisseur de la ressource biologique ou génétique ou de l'élément immatériel (art. 26 b).
cmsdata.iucn.org
As part of the application, an identification of the provider of the biological or genetic resources and intangible component is required (art. 26 b).
data.iucn.org
https://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/traduction/immatérie...

matériel nom, masculin (pluriel: matériels m)
Le contrôle du matériel sera effectué par des experts. Evaluation of the material will be carried out by experts.
equipment n Le laboratoire a le matériel médical nécessaire pour les tests. The laboratory has the medical equipment needed for the tests.

distributeur de matériel de télécommunications et de matériel.
bellaliant.ca
a distributor of telecom and industrial equipment.
bellaliant.ca
https://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/search?source=auto&q...

Le Nigéria a signalé avoir acquis et installé du matériel d'analyse.
Nigeria reported that analytical equipment had been procured and installed.
https://context.reverso.net/übersetzung/franzosisch-englisch...

An invisible and intangible software system is responsible for the first and third tasks, and the second is handed over to the consumer.
https://inf.news/en/tech/4416a5e07b284e7f9b6e0a542dfe5193.ht...

The desktops appear to be that tangible hardware system that gives you the realistic feel when you work on the PC
https://www.amazon.in/ZOTAC-GeForce-Graphics-Black-Orange/dp...

Hence I propose:

The Telematic Service comprises two items, the tangible hardware system (the equipment) and the other intangible software system, defined below.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Mpoma : I initially thought of this, hardware/software (or "data-processing"). But you only worked this out by looking at what follows: it's not intrinsic to the phrase itself.
23 mins
Exactement ! Le contexte ultérieur doit être pris en compte lors de la traduction, tout comme le contexte précédent.
neutral philgoddard : Hardware and software are valid answers, but 'tangible hardware' and 'intangible software' are tautologies.
1 hr
Les « éléments » font partie du terme, et correspondent au matériel et au logiciel, et ont donc été traduits avec.
neutral James A. Walsh : I second Phil's comment about tautologies. And most of your references are from unreliable sources or refer to abstract concepts that have nothing to do with this question. // Whatever!
10 hrs
Si vous affirmez que les données ne sont pas fiables, vous devez le prouver. En tant qu'ingénieur, je suis bien placé pour juger de la fiabilité des déclarations techniques.
Something went wrong...
8 days
French term (edited): matériel vs immatériel (éléments d'une prestation)

tangible vs intangible (components of a contractual obligation)

these two come as a pair of opposites, and should be treared as a pair.

in this contract, in practical terms it's

hardware vs data(software) or you could equally see it as

goods vs services (to be delivered)

BOTH 'éléments matériel' and 'élémentsvs immatériel' (de la prestation) are the most general terms, so for coherence, I would stick to the most general legal terms.





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Note added at 23 days (2023-01-01 10:54:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

... 'éléments matériel' and 'éléments immatériel' (de la prestation)
Something went wrong...
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