| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | French translation agency demanding VAT number Thread poster: Jenny Nilsson
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Christina B.
Sweden
Local time: 01:55
French to German
+ ...
| agree with Catherine, you must have a momsregistreringsnummer | Oct 22, 2015 |
if you are running a business in Sweden.
Then there are different rules about how to use this number (your Europea VAT-number is the same as your momsregistreringsnummer, but starting with the letters SE...):
If you send an invoice to someone in Sweden (over 100 SEK), it's the customer who pays both the 100 SEK and the 25 SEK moms. (25% moms on non-copyright-translations).
The same rule applies if you send an invoice to a private customer within th... See more if you are running a business in Sweden.
Then there are different rules about how to use this number (your Europea VAT-number is the same as your momsregistreringsnummer, but starting with the letters SE...):
If you send an invoice to someone in Sweden (over 100 SEK), it's the customer who pays both the 100 SEK and the 25 SEK moms. (25% moms on non-copyright-translations).
The same rule applies if you send an invoice to a private customer within the EU.
If you send the invoice to a business-customer within the EU, just the 100 SEK figure on the invoice, plus the text "reverse charge". Your customer pays the moms in his own country (in most other countries it will be less than 25%!). In this case, both your customers and your own VAT-number must be on the invoice AND you have to send a list (every third month) to the Swedish skatteverket, specifying all transactions of this kind. The Swedish and the other european tax agencies will sort out it...
[Edited at 2015-10-22 09:13 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Clear and relevant | Oct 22, 2015 |
Christina Baier wrote:
if you are running a business in Sweden.
Then there are different rules about how to use this number (your Europea VAT-number is the same as your momsregistreringsnummer, but starting with the letters SE...):
If you send an invoice to someone in Sweden (over 100 SEK), it's the customer who pays both the 100 SEK and the 25 SEK moms. (25% moms on non-copyright-translations).
The same rule applies if you send an invoice to a private customer within the EU.
If you send the invoice to a business-customer within the EU, just the 100 SEK figure on the invoice, plus the text "reverse charge". Your customer pays the moms in his own country (in most other countries it will be less than 25%!). In this case, both your customers and your own VAT-number must be on the invoice AND you have to send a list (every third month) to the Swedish skatteverket, specifying all transactions of this kind. The Swedish and the other european tax agencies will sort out it...
[Edited at 2015-10-22 09:13 GMT]
Clear and relevant information about the situation in Sweden!
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interpretwhisky wrote:
Write:
"TVA non applicable, article 273B du CGI" on the invoice and send them the updated version.
I have a couple of companies for whom that was sufficient when I was still paying tax in the UK.
I'm sure others can enlighten you on the process further, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
You *DO NOT* necessarily need a VAT number.
The "TVA non applicable..." part is a reference to the French tax code, and is indeed used by French businesses on invoices in certain cases. I don't see how it would make sense to put that on an invoice issued from the UK or Sweden! It might make the French client happy in the short term, but it certainly wouldn't be satisfactory if there was a fiscal audit a few years down the road...
No, there is no obligation to have a VAT number in France if you are under the 32k threshold, but that's only valid for domestic business! Any French business that is doing business with businesses in other EU countries needs to have a VAT number, and send monthly DES declarations to the customs authorities. It's easy to apply for a VAT number, and won't change your VAT exempt status as long as you stay under that threshold.
| | | | jensskarpe 
Spain
Local time: 01:55
Member (2013)
Swedish to Spanish
+ ...
[quote]Christina Baier wrote:
if you are running a business in Sweden.
Then there are different rules about how to use this number (your Europea VAT-number is the same as your momsregistreringsnummer, but starting with the letters SE...):
I am not sure in Sweden, but in Spain you still have to apply for a European VAT-number, even if once approved it is the same as your domestic VAT code with the language code in front of it, SE, ES etc.
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Christina B.
Sweden
Local time: 01:55
French to German
+ ...
| Is your business registered in Sweden or in the UK? | Oct 22, 2015 |
When you register a business at the skatteverket in Sweden, you get back a paper called "registerutdrag". On my registerutdrag figures "Momsre.nr/VAT-nr SE74..."
So if your business is registered in Sweden, perhaps you do have a VAT-number without knowing it? 
[Edited at 2015-10-22 13:44 GMT]
| | | | Maria Dimitrova
Bulgaria
Local time: 02:55
Member (2011)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
| You cannot do business with other EU countries without a VAT number | Oct 22, 2015 |
Lori Cirefice wrote:
Even if you don't have to register for VAT in France because you fall under the threshold, you can (and must!) still apply for a VAT number if you want to do business with other businesses in the EU. Having this special VAT number doesn't mean that you have to declare VAT or collect VAT, it doesn't change anything other than making it possible for all the parties involved to meet their legal obligations.
I think other countries (except the UK as far as I know) have implemented similar measures, to give a VAT number to those who aren't required to register for VAT. At the very least, there must be some guidelines in Sweden on how to deal with this situation, for example a special mention on the invoice as Interpretwhisky says...
It is the same in Bulgaria and I believe it should be the same across the EU. It is practically illegal to do business with a company from another EU member state, without having a VAT number. The sad thing is that many accountants are not competent enough on this issue, most of them have only heard about VAT registration after gaining the respective threshold income and a lot of them do not know you can have a VAT number for EU transactions and still be VAT exempt, if you are below the threshold.
Now what the asker can do: You can apply for an EU VAT number now, I don't know how it is in your country, but in Bulgaria you have a certain deadline to apply for VAT after the tax event that necessitates VAT registration. Getting a VAT should not take more than a few days (takes about 3 days in Bulgaria, with our generally slow bureaucracy). In Bulgaria we have the option to get a VAT just for intra-community transactions, meaning, we don't charge VAT and we don't collect VAT, the only thing that changes is that a monthly declaration needs to be submitted to the revenue authority.
The other option is to issue a credit note (i.e. cancel the invoice) and sign a contract with the French agency (we call those civil contracts in Bulgaria). If you sign a civil contract, then you will need to pay social security and taxes and declare that income in your tax return. In my opinion, getting a VAT number is the simpler option.
| | | | Jenny Nilsson
Sweden
Local time: 01:55
English to Swedish
TOPIC STARTER | I do not have a registered company. | Oct 22, 2015 |
I am a sole trader, and a while ago when I spoke to the tax officials in Sweden (skatteverket) they didn't seem to know what to do with that, especially since I was payed through third party organisations. Now that I know a little more, I may have to have a chat with them again.
| | | | | Purely anecdotal | Oct 22, 2015 |
Lori Cirefice wrote: interpretwhisky wrote:
Write:
"TVA non applicable, article 273B du CGI" on the invoice and send them the updated version.
I have a couple of companies for whom that was sufficient when I was still paying tax in the UK.
I'm sure others can enlighten you on the process further, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
You *DO NOT* necessarily need a VAT number. The "TVA non applicable..." part is a reference to the French tax code, and is indeed used by French businesses on invoices in certain cases. I don't see how it would make sense to put that on an invoice issued from the UK or Sweden! It might make the French client happy in the short term, but it certainly wouldn't be satisfactory if there was a fiscal audit a few years down the road... No, there is no obligation to have a VAT number in France if you are under the 32k threshold, but that's only valid for domestic business! Any French business that is doing business with businesses in other EU countries needs to have a VAT number, and send monthly DES declarations to the customs authorities. It's easy to apply for a VAT number, and won't change your VAT exempt status as long as you stay under that threshold.
My point was that I've been a sole trader in the UK providing services to 8 countries in 3 continents for 10 years - approx. 70% to France - and have never been required to provide a VAT number.
I'm sure you're right - and presumably that means that one day I'll find myself in a whole heap of trouble - but it seems strange that in all this time none of the many companies I've worked with have ever needed one.
Anyway, I can see there are loads of previous discussions on this already and I was basing that assertion on personal experience and what I had understood after cursory research into the topic (apparently not in-depth enough). So I retract it.
My apologies!!!
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| Sole trader in Sweden | Oct 22, 2015 |
Even as a sole trader, you surely have some record/registration of that, didn't you apply/declare your status somewhere at some point? I did a quick google search and although it seems you may not be obliged to register with the Swedish companies registration office (Bolagsverket I think?!), it seems you do have some kind of obligation to register with Skatteverket. Perhaps you can find your Skatteverket documents and check through them to see if you have a VAT number hiding there somewhere... <... See more Even as a sole trader, you surely have some record/registration of that, didn't you apply/declare your status somewhere at some point? I did a quick google search and although it seems you may not be obliged to register with the Swedish companies registration office (Bolagsverket I think?!), it seems you do have some kind of obligation to register with Skatteverket. Perhaps you can find your Skatteverket documents and check through them to see if you have a VAT number hiding there somewhere...
https://www.verksamt.se/en/web/international/faq#sole-trader
"How do I register as a sole trader?
You need to apply to the Swedish Tax Agency for F-tax and VAT registration. If you also want to protect your company name, do so by registering with the Swedish Companies Registration Office.
There are e-services available for company registration at verksamt.se, but in Swedish only. You must have a Swedish identity number and a Swedish e-identification (e-legitimation in Swedish) to get access to them."
http://www.bolagsverket.se/en/bus/business/sole/setup
"......Register with Skatteverket
A sole trader must register with the Swedish Tax Agency (Skatteverket). You need a Swedish personal identity number or co-ordination number when registering as a sole trader in Sweden...... If you register online you can apply for an F-tax card and register for VAT accounting with the Swedish Tax Agency (Skatteverket) at the same time." ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The UK is special ;-) | Oct 22, 2015 |
interpretwhisky wrote:
My point was that I've been a sole trader in the UK providing services to 8 countries in 3 continents for 10 years - approx. 70% to France - and have never been required to provide a VAT number.
I'm sure you're right - and presumably that means that one day I'll find myself in a whole heap of trouble - but it seems strange that in all this time none of the many companies I've worked with have ever needed one.
From everything I've read on this subject with regard to the UK, it seems the situation there is different than everywhere else in the EU... I'm sure you've done everything right from a legal standpoint in the UK and didn't mean to suggest otherwise!
But you're trading from France now, or am I mistaken? That's why I posted all the additional info, because in France it really is not the same as the UK, if you're trading from France and invoicing to other EU countries without checking VAT numbers first, you're not doing it right
As for why some clients insist on it and others don't... maybe the ones who don't insist have never had a "contrôle fiscal", so they don't know what they are risking? In my previous line of business I had two, and believe me - the first thing the tax inspector looks at is your VAT returns and related documents, VAT fraud/mistakes are a huge deal, or maybe they were before these newish VAT regulations came into effect a few years back. These new requirements are supposed to be reducing VAT fraud across the EU.
There also seems to be a lack of knowledge about all these new requirements, some companies are more up to speed than others, in some countries it's more straightforward than in others...
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Lori Cirefice wrote: interpretwhisky wrote:
My point was that I've been a sole trader in the UK providing services to 8 countries in 3 continents for 10 years - approx. 70% to France - and have never been required to provide a VAT number.
I'm sure you're right - and presumably that means that one day I'll find myself in a whole heap of trouble - but it seems strange that in all this time none of the many companies I've worked with have ever needed one.
From everything I've read on this subject with regard to the UK, it seems the situation there is different than everywhere else in the EU... I'm sure you've done everything right from a legal standpoint in the UK and didn't mean to suggest otherwise! But you're trading from France now, or am I mistaken? That's why I posted all the additional info, because in France it really is not the same as the UK, if you're trading from France and invoicing to other EU countries without checking VAT numbers first, you're not doing it right As for why some clients insist on it and others don't... maybe the ones who don't insist have never had a "contrôle fiscal", so they don't know what they are risking? In my previous line of business I had two, and believe me - the first thing the tax inspector looks at is your VAT returns and related documents, VAT fraud/mistakes are a huge deal, or maybe they were before these newish VAT regulations came into effect a few years back. These new requirements are supposed to be reducing VAT fraud across the EU. There also seems to be a lack of knowledge about all these new requirements, some companies are more up to speed than others, in some countries it's more straightforward than in others...
I am now resident in France for tax purposes but it is complicated for various not very interesting reasons and in any case I can't stay an autoentrepreneur anymore and have to get a VAT number anyway.
Tax though
| | | | | Been there :-( | Oct 22, 2015 |
interpretwhisky wrote: ...I can't stay an autoentrepreneur anymore and have to get a VAT number anyway. Tax though
My sympathies! I had to move onwards and upwards too, nearly three years ago... all I can say is get an accountant, an AGA, and save more money than you think you need to pay all those taxes and cotisations!
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