| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | Macedonian vs Macedonian conceptual conflict Thread poster: Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ
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alinguista 
Local time: 12:43
French to Macedonian
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Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote: alinguista wrote: Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote: alinguista wrote: Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote:
Hello,
I am having a headache due to a conceptual conflict of the word Macedonian in English and other nonSlav/nonGreek languages.
Therefore, if we want to create a forum called "Macedonian" in English, we have a big dilemma. It seems that we are in need of official neologisms which both communities seemingly refuse to adopt.
Anyone has an aspirine for this one?
[Edited at 2007-09-02 17:55] Hello, I do not think there is a conceptual conflict. Macedonian is the official language of Republic of Macedonia and if we act only as language professionals this should not be a problem. International organizations such as United Nations, Council of Europe and European Union use "Macedonian". Outsourcers and other communities for translators too. Best regards UN, EU and NATO use "Macedonian", but Council of Europe use "Macedonian (Slavic)" Have you checked your information? If you like you can have a look at the link below:http://www.echr.coe.int/ECHR/EN/Header/Basic%20Texts/Basic%20Texts/The%20European%20Convention%20on%20Human%20Rights%20and%20its%20Protocols/ Take a look at their thesaurus http://www.echr.coe.int/Library/annexes/thesaurus.pdf you will find simply "macédonien" - "Macedonian", but also "macédonien slave" - "Macedonian Slav"
And did you check their site? Did you make a research using Macedonian and using Macedonian Slav? How many results did you get for Macedonian and how many for Macedonian Slav? Before you showed me the link I did not find Macedonian Slav and you did. But even like this it does not mean that Council of Europe use "Macedonian (Slavic)" At the best you can say "The Council of Europe use both"...
| | | | skazakis
Local time: 13:43
English to Greek
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alinguista wrote:
I know there are Macedonians in Greece speaking the same language as I, that is the Macedonian which is a slavic language.
I consider this 100% unfounded. There is no sound statistic from a reputable organization where this can be found or founded. Please rephrase or let the moderator delete this statement.
If a Greek dialect called Macedonian exists and if there are Proz.com users who would like to have a forum in that dialect, Proz.com could open a subforum within the Greek forum where users can discuss in that dialect.
There are scholars arguing that the language spoken in FYROM is a Bulgarian dialect. Others say that it was artificially created by Tito in the aftermath of WWII (along with the federal state of Macedonia, in order to counter-balance the power of Serbs). Along the lines of your argument, should Macedonian be a sub-forum under the Bulgarian forum?
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Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 06:43
Member (2000)
Greek to English
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| getting back on track | Sep 6, 2007 |
Dimitra, you are right. It is clear that we will not and cannot solve this problem here. Now, in order to avoid having this thread locked without reaching any meaningful conclusion or agreement, let us please try to focus.
I will repeat my question.
If we name the new forum "Macedonian (Slavic)", will you -neighbors from FYROM- accept it and use the forum? Do you find the word "Slavic" offensive as part of the language name in the forum? I am NOT asking whether or not you f... See more Dimitra, you are right. It is clear that we will not and cannot solve this problem here. Now, in order to avoid having this thread locked without reaching any meaningful conclusion or agreement, let us please try to focus.
I will repeat my question.
If we name the new forum "Macedonian (Slavic)", will you -neighbors from FYROM- accept it and use the forum? Do you find the word "Slavic" offensive as part of the language name in the forum? I am NOT asking whether or not you find it redundant, I am asking if you find it offensive. (And my guess is that you don't; in the same way that Greeks are proud of their Greek origin, I assume so are you of your Slavic origin. But that is my assumption. I would like to hear your thoughts.)
I -as a Greek from Macedonia, Greece- do not accept the name Macedonian when it refers to the slavic language, but I am willing to accept it as part of the name for the sake of creating a ProZ forum. I am asking our Greek colleagues to do the same.
If you have strong objections, please state them. Let's not make this a never-ending thread (because undoubtedly we can). Both sides have their arguments which we've heard many times before. We cannot change historical facts so let's not even try.
Maria
[Edited at 2007-09-06 15:14] ▲ Collapse
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The official English version:
www.proz.com
- Community / Non-English Language Forums/
- Albanian
- ...
- Greek
- ...
- Macedonian
- ...
The Macedonian version:
.... Не-англиски јазични форуми
- Албански
- ...
- Грчки
- ...
- Македонски
- ...
The Gree... See more The official English version:
www.proz.com
- Community / Non-English Language Forums/
- Albanian
- ...
- Greek
- ...
- Macedonian
- ...
The Macedonian version:
.... Не-англиски јазични форуми
- Албански
- ...
- Грчки
- ...
- Македонски
- ...
The Greek members are completely free and have the full right to name and call these and other languages in the way they are used to, in the Greek localization, of course.
Regards,
Sherefedin Mustafa ▲ Collapse
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Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 06:43
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
| not the issue | Sep 6, 2007 |
Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
The Greek members are completely free and have the full right to name and call these and other languages in the way they are used to, in the Greek localization, of course.
Dear Sherefedin,
I don't think that you "eurekes" because the problem is not that the Greeks don't know what to call this language in the Greek version of ProZ. Please let's not insult each other's intelligence. If you belong to the neighboring community of FYROM, would you be so kind as to answer my question and tell me if the word Slavic would offend you as part of the forum name? I'm trying to see if we can reach an agreement.
Kind regards,
Maria
| | | | | Well thank you | Sep 6, 2007 |
Sherefedin for using a well known Greek word. However, with all due respect, do you really know the correct meaning? If it were that simple we wouldn't be discussing this issue at all.
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Maria Karra wrote:
If we name the new forum "Macedonian (Slavic)", will you -neighbors from FYROM- accept it and use the forum? Do you find the word "Slavic" offensive as part of the language name in the forum? I am NOT asking whether or not you find it redundant, I am asking if you find it offensive. (And my guess is that you don't; in the same way that Greeks are proud of their Greek origin, I assume so are you of your Slavic origin. But that is my assumption. I would like to hear your thoughts.)
I -as a Greek from Macedonia, Greece- do not accept the name Macedonian when it refers to the slavic language, but I am willing to accept it as part of the name for the sake of creating a ProZ forum. I am asking our Greek colleagues to do the same.
If you have strong objections, please state them. Let's not make this a never-ending thread (because undoubtedly we can). Both sides have their arguments which we've heard many times before. We cannot change historical facts so let's not even try.
Maria
[Edited at 2007-09-06 15:14]
Dear Karra
do you think that all the nations who originate from Slavic should have next to their language names Slavic in brackets?
thanks
| | | | | Yes, that would offend me. | Sep 6, 2007 |
The English denomination already exists and must be maintained.
You may add any attributes you need or consider necessary in Greek, that’s your right.
From the very moment that the English name of the language we are discussing about will be changed, I will say farewell to this community of language professionals.
Kind Regards,
Sherefedin
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Mira Stepanovic wrote:
...do you really know the correct meaning?
Yes, I do.
| | | | Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 06:43
Member (2000)
Greek to English
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Gabriela Breslieva wrote:
Dear Karra
do you think that all the nations who originate from Slavic should have next to their language names Slavic in brackets?
Hi Gabriela,
Please call me Maria. No, I don't think that all nations of Slavic origin should have the word "Slavic" next to their language in parenthesis.
However, there is absolutely no way we can compare this language to all other languages and follow the same rules. This is a different case which presents a different problem, and hence needs a different treatment. And let's not forget, it is a Slavic language with a Greek name (do you know what "Macedonian" means?), so it would make sense to me to put the word Slavic in brackets. You as a FYROM national may find it redundant. Again, I would like to know if you find it offensive, keeping in mind that we are trying to find a solution that both communities can live with.
Thanks for replying, I appreciate it.
Maria
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Maria Karra wrote:
Again, I would like to know if you find it offensive, keeping in mind that we are trying to find a solution that both communities can live with.
Thanks for replying, I appreciate it.
Maria
Dear Maria,
Yes, I do, because the whole world calls my language Macedonian and who are we to make out new rules and names? I don't think we should continue with this issue because we are all humans, all the same, but with different languages, with same senses and needs and we should cooperate, translate, help each other and not involve in political matters.
P.S. I'm not interested in politics. I'm just a translator.
Thanks,
Gabriela
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