| Stron w wątku: < [1 2 3 4] > | Poll: What is your average daily capacity for translation? Autor wątku: ProZ.com Staff
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Rita Utt 
Francja
Local time: 05:16
angielski > niemiecki
+ ...
| MT-Postediting | Apr 27, 2022 |
"Of course. Is anyone NOT using MT in the year 2022?
I use MT for suggested translations, and use either all of it, if it's good, or none of it, if it's trash."
What you are describing is MT-Postediting, which is perfect if the text is relatively easy, straightforward and not too technical,
and if you're paid for translations and not for MT-Postediting (meaning somebody else get the benefits of this technology).
If I'm translating difficult texts, I can stil... See more "Of course. Is anyone NOT using MT in the year 2022?
I use MT for suggested translations, and use either all of it, if it's good, or none of it, if it's trash."
What you are describing is MT-Postediting, which is perfect if the text is relatively easy, straightforward and not too technical,
and if you're paid for translations and not for MT-Postediting (meaning somebody else get the benefits of this technology).
If I'm translating difficult texts, I can still use MT, but productivity gain is limited to 25 percent in my experience. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgia
Local time: 05:16
Członek ProZ.com
od 2020
francuski > niderlandzki
+ ...
| What exaggerations? | Apr 27, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote:
Exaggerations give clients the wrong ideas, make them think that translation is an easy task and that translators make millions of dollars every quarter.
As far as I can see nobody is talking about 7000 words a day for 'normal' translations. I can tell you that 700 words per hour for machine translation post-editing is a perfectly achievable translation speed (and it would better be, or otherwise it would be impossible to make a living out of it).
Furthermore it is possible (for experienced translators at least) to reach speeds to 500 words per hour for 'normal' quality translations.
So tell me, what exaggerations are you exactly talking about?
| | | | Justin Peterson
Hiszpania
Local time: 05:16
Członek ProZ.com
od 2007
hiszpański > angielski
| Everyone's situation is different ... | Apr 27, 2022 |
Kay Denney wrote: Justin Peterson wrote:
Is anyone NOT using MT in the year 2022?
Are people, for example, really manually translating lists of countries, for example? (!) Or retranslating exact sentences they have done many times before? ETC. Why? I don't use MT. I translate mainly for the arts, blurb about upcoming exhibitions, sleeve notes for CDs (yes they still exist), press releases about upcoming events, biographies of artists. Basically, not the stuff that MT will be helpful for. If you have to read what MT comes up with, decide whether or not it's worthwhile to use it and then translate it when you decide that no, it's not usable, it'll take far longer than just translating it from scratch. My clients tend to want prose that's hard-hitting, with original turns of phrase, text that incites their clients to click on "buy now" rather than some tired old réchauffé. If there happens to be a list of countries in a press release, yes I translate them manually. It takes five seconds. I'm not sure how long it would take to have them translated by MT, but I'm pretty sure I'm not wasting time needlessly. I see that most people voted for 2,000 words a day, I voted 3,000. I remember working out a while back that, discounting downtime, I translated an average of 3,800 words a day while my colleague earning the same salary averaged half that. In all honesty I don't think I do as much nowadays, but my hourly rate as a freelancer is much more than when I was working in-house, so it's all good. Justin if you need to translate 8,000 words a day to pay your rent, you must either be working at an abysmal rate or living in a mansion...
I hear you. What you say makes sense. If I were only translating that kind of material, I would probably do it the same way. Like I said, I did not use it for the novels I have translated. But, that's just not the case for most of the material I translate.
Not a mansion, but downtown Madrid is very pricey, and I'm willing to work overtime to live here.
| | | | Justin Peterson
Hiszpania
Local time: 05:16
Członek ProZ.com
od 2007
hiszpański > angielski
| I guess you call it that ... post-editing | Apr 27, 2022 |
Rita Utt wrote:
"Of course. Is anyone NOT using MT in the year 2022?
I use MT for suggested translations, and use either all of it, if it's good, or none of it, if it's trash."
What you are describing is MT-Postediting, which is perfect if the text is relatively easy, straightforward and not too technical,
and if you're paid for translations and not for MT-Postediting (meaning somebody else get the benefits of this technology).
If I'm translating difficult texts, I can still use MT, but productivity gain is limited to 25 percent in my experience.
+++
Post-editing or translating after MT screening. Whatever. Perhaps that is the more correct term. Though my post-editing is often very extensive, if necessary.
In my case, I'm not dealing with agencies who are "pretranslating" the material. I deal with a lot of direct clients who want it in perfect, native-level English. That's what they get, and they don't care about the road taken to get there.
I would have to say one thing. MT (incorporated into my CAT) has made me, without a doubt, a BETTER translator. I was afraid it would make me lazy or careless. The opposite happened: I am now able to really focus on the tough stuff, the nuances that need to be transmitted, and to glide through the easier bits without rattling away on my keyboard.
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Justin Peterson
Hiszpania
Local time: 05:16
Członek ProZ.com
od 2007
hiszpański > angielski
| Well, yes, my MT is incorporated into my CAT (don't they all do that?) | Apr 27, 2022 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Justin Peterson wrote:
Are people, for example, really manually translating lists of countries, for example? (!) Or retranslating exact sentences they have done many times before? Hmm...! First, my clients would usually pick up that sort of thing in their preliminary scan, lock the segments in question and deal with them themselves. But if they don't lock them then they pay my full rate for me to translate them, which is fine by me. I don't charge by the hour. The second is that if your rate is low enough that the efficiency with which you translate lists of high-frequency proper nouns becomes a crucial part of the equation, perhaps the rate is the overarching problem? The third is that - and personally I have no objection to people using MT or any other tool provided that their clients understand and accept the issues - are you perhaps confusing MT with CAT? I ask because a decent CAT tool with appropriate translation memory and termbase will do the above (lists, identical sentences) for you, without needing to resort to Google Translate or some other MT system. Also, the TM and TB will usually be tailored to your client's particular context. To return to the poll, for material with which I'm familiar I can translate about 1,000 characters an hour, which is generally about 500 English words. At a push I can therefore complete 8,000 characters a day, but it's hard to sustain concentration and motivation that long. Dan [Edited at 2022-04-27 11:58 GMT]
Depending on the complexity of the content, I'll use a phrase-by-phrase tool, or a complete document translation tool, and then do meticulous editing for precision, style and tone. If it is really complex or subjective, I'll do it the old-fashioned way: no MT. Different tools for different tasks.
| | | | Justin Peterson
Hiszpania
Local time: 05:16
Członek ProZ.com
od 2007
hiszpański > angielski
| Now, now ... let's not get personal ; ) | Apr 27, 2022 |
Jean Dimitriadis wrote: Justin Peterson wrote:
6,000 - 8,000, depending on the difficulty of the texts, and how many hours I can work that day.
[Edited at 2022-04-27 09:04 GMT] I wonder what's your rent like... How many words do you need to translate to pay the rent? How many days does it take? [Edited at 2022-04-27 14:12 GMT]
***
Actually, it's a mortage, but let's not get personal now ; )
If your tongue is in your cheek, and you're skeptical ... whatever.
I've actually been baffled for years about how people can make a living at 2,000 words/day, so I thought I'd answer honestly. To be honest, I was bracing for more vitriolic accusations of lying and a supposed lack of professionalism, as this question often makes tempers flare and elicits claims of exaggeration, for whatever reason. I am not boasting. I'm just answering the question.
| | | | Dan Lucas
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 04:16
Członek ProZ.com
od 2014
japoński > angielski
| It's certainly possible | Apr 27, 2022 |
Justin Peterson wrote:
I've actually been baffled for years about how people can make a living at 2,000 words/day
There is no mystery: it's down to sensible rates. If I translated an average of only 2,000 characters a day, I'd still make more than the median wage in my country of residence. So would many others on here, I imagine.
I don't think you need to be baffled, by the way. In a market with zero barriers to entry anybody can participate, so you probably get a lot of freelancers who are just dabbling in the market without being fully committed. They have other jobs, or are students, or are retired, or are not the main breadwinner, and they translate not to survive but for additional income.
I am not boasting.
It didn't sound boastful to me but neither, to be blunt, did it sound like something to which to aspire. If I translated carefully for 8 hours a day, every day, I'd be very tired at the end of it, and I don't think the extra money would compensate.
Would MT help? Maybe, but it isn't going to happen any time soon. The market niche in which I work consists mostly of documents that contain material, non-public information. My clients have very significant concerns about privacy and they explicitly forbid the use of MT. If I were translating material that my clients didn't consider to be important or sensitive then I would certainly evaluate MT for my own workflow. It's good to know that it works for you.
Clarification: as I have commented many times in the past, I don't think there's only one way to succeed in this market. You can charge very high rates that allow you to translate low volumes slowly and inefficiently and still make a decent living, or charge very low rates and offset these by translating large volumes very quickly and efficiently. Or, like most of us, you can be somewhere in between those extremes. It depends on one's personal circumstances.
Regards,
Dan
[Edited at 2022-04-27 18:01 GMT]
| | | | Justin Peterson
Hiszpania
Local time: 05:16
Członek ProZ.com
od 2007
hiszpański > angielski
| I totally agree | Apr 27, 2022 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Justin Peterson wrote:
I've actually been baffled for years about how people can make a living at 2,000 words/day There is no mystery: it's down to sensible rates. If I translated an average of only 2,000 characters a day, I'd still make more than the median wage in my country of residence. So would many others on here, I imagine. I don't think you need to be baffled, by the way. In a market with zero barriers to entry anybody can participate, so you probably get a lot of freelancers who are just dabbling in the market without being fully committed. They have other jobs, or are students, or are retired, or are not the main breadwinner, and they translate not to survive but for additional income. I am not boasting. It didn't sound boastful to me but neither, to be blunt, did it sound like something to which to aspire. If I translated carefully for 8 hours a day, every day, I'd be very tired at the end of it, and I don't think the extra money would compensate. Would MT help? Maybe, but it isn't going to happen any time soon. The market niche in which I work consists mostly of documents that contain material, non-public information. My clients have very significant concerns about privacy and they explicitly forbid the use of MT. If I were translating material that my clients didn't consider to be important or sensitive then I would certainly evaluate MT for my own workflow. It's good to know that it works for you. Clarification: as I have commented many times in the past, I don't think there's only one way to succeed in this market. You can charge very high rates that allow you to translate low volumes slowly and inefficiently and still make a decent living, or charge very low rates and offset these by translating large volumes very quickly and efficiently. Or, like most of us, you can be somewhere in between those extremes. It depends on one's personal circumstances. Regards, Dan [Edited at 2022-04-27 18:01 GMT]
I totally agree.
Obviously, I am not translating particularly difficult content, with this kind of output.
I can turn out this volume because I am doing a lot of simpler content, and because it is simple, my rates are relatively low.
I would point out that, in my experience, at least, in Spain, few clients are willing to pay what HARD content should cost.
An extra cent or two per word for documents that take twice or three times as long is, obviously, not enough to make that content attractive.
Thus, the business is, in my experience, in garden-variety translations. That may not be the case in other places, or just for particular translators and their client bases.
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| Baffle no more | Apr 27, 2022 |
Justin Peterson wrote:
I've actually been baffled for years about how people can make a living at 2,000 words/day
Well if I did 2,000 words a day I’d be making about $100,000 a year. That’s enough to live off anywhere.
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In my work, the quality of the input text varies greatly, even between authors writing on the same subject, and that affects both the speed at which I can work and, if I use MT, the quality of the output. Much of my work is for publication in the form of manuals, technical monographs, or articles in scientific journals, so any error could get me in trouble or cause me to lose a client. I double-check everything as I go along and proofread twice after the translation is finished. It often happens... See more In my work, the quality of the input text varies greatly, even between authors writing on the same subject, and that affects both the speed at which I can work and, if I use MT, the quality of the output. Much of my work is for publication in the form of manuals, technical monographs, or articles in scientific journals, so any error could get me in trouble or cause me to lose a client. I double-check everything as I go along and proofread twice after the translation is finished. It often happens that I know the meaning of a word or phrase but can't come up with the exact nuance in my target language. So I find myself consulting an online thesaurus or dictionaries for ideas. All that takes time!
As for using MT, based on more than 40 years of experience with the technology, I can confidently say that the quality of the output depends on the quality of the input. Also, with even the best MT, one has to watch for "poison cookies" -- mistranslations the make sense but aren't correct. An example might be the word "equipo" in Spanish, which can mean either 'team' or 'equipment''. Also, it often happens that an adjective gets attached to the wrong noun. As a result, when I use MT output, I find myself losing time because I am constantly checking back against the original text to make sure the correct meaning has been captured.
I once translated 9,000 words in a single day using machine translation for a very clear-cut text while under pressure to meet a deadline. But my average is 2,000 words, like the majority of colleagues who have responded to this question.
[Edited at 2022-04-27 20:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Justin Peterson
Hiszpania
Local time: 05:16
Członek ProZ.com
od 2007
hiszpański > angielski
| Rates in the USA? | Apr 27, 2022 |
Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:
In my work, the quality of the input text varies greatly, even between authors writing on the same subject, and that affects both the speed at which I can work and, if I use MT, the quality of the output. Much of my work is for publication in the form of manuals, technical monographs, or articles in scientific journals, so any error could get me in trouble or cause me to lose a client. I double-check everything as I go along and proofread twice after the translation is finished. It often happens that I know the meaning of a word or phrase but can't come up with the exact nuance in my target language. So I find myself consulting an online thesaurus or dictionaries for ideas. All that takes time!
As for using MT, based on more than 40 years of experience with the technology, I can confidently say that the quality of the output depends on the quality of the input. Also, with even the best MT, one has to watch for "poison cookies" -- mistranslations the make sense but aren't correct. An example might be the word "equipo" in Spanish, which can mean either 'team' or 'equipment''. Also, it often happens that an adjective gets attached to the wrong noun. As a result, when I use MT output, I find myself losing time because I am constantly checking back against the original text to make sure the correct meaning has been captured.
I once translated 9,000 words in a single day using machine translation for a very clear-cut text while under pressure to meet a deadline. But my average is 2,000 words, like the majority of colleagues who have responded to this question.
[Edited at 2022-04-27 20:06 GMT]
Oh, you definitely need to watch out for those potential pitfalls.
I circle them in red, literally, when I do my preliminary reading of the text.
Despite those possible flaws with MT, I still find it is absolutely indispensable.
Not to pry, but, I am an American living in Spain, and have NO idea of standard per-word rates in the US.
For freelancers, standard rates here are about .06-.07 cents (Euro)/word.
I don't know how the US compares.
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Justin Peterson wrote: Jean Dimitriadis wrote: Justin Peterson wrote:
6,000 - 8,000, depending on the difficulty of the texts, and how many hours I can work that day.
[Edited at 2022-04-27 09:04 GMT] I wonder what's your rent like... How many words do you need to translate to pay the rent? How many days does it take? [Edited at 2022-04-27 14:12 GMT] *** Actually, it's a mortage, but let's not get personal now ; ) If your tongue is in your cheek, and you're skeptical ... whatever. I've actually been baffled for years about how people can make a living at 2,000 words/day, so I thought I'd answer honestly. To be honest, I was bracing for more vitriolic accusations of lying and a supposed lack of professionalism, as this question often makes tempers flare and elicits claims of exaggeration, for whatever reason. I am not boasting. I'm just answering the question.
Hi Justin,
Thank you for your honest replies. They paint an interesting picture and make for a thoughtful discussion.
What did strike me as an exaggeration was your claim that an average of 3,000 words per day would barely pay the rent, not so much the high daily output.
For perspective (and to respond in the same truthful fashion), I *average* around 2,000 words a day, in around 5 work hours. Can be more, can be less, but I've found that working more *on average* is not conducive to my well-being.
With that output, the rent is paid in a day and a half or two, and the average saving rate is 50% or above. There is nothing to boast about here.
When I started working as a translator, I decided to take on relatively challenging texts. My thinking was that this would allow me to further hone my skills (which is also congruent with literature on mastery and "deliberate practice"), command higher rates and become a better translator in the long run.
I think my approach generally still holds true, but I also hear the case of MT helping focus on the tough stuff even in simpler texts. Either way, this keeps the work challenging.
At any rate, I don't come across many simple texts as a translator. Maybe this is also down to my target language. French is quite demanding as it requires precise expression and generally rewards more careful work.
[Edited at 2022-04-28 06:33 GMT]
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Sadek_A
Local time: 07:16
angielski > arabski
+ ...
| I will tell you what exaggerations! | Apr 28, 2022 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
What exaggerations?
As far as I can see nobody is talking about 7000 words a day for 'normal' translations.
First of all, we are flesh and blood, not machines nor softwares.
This means, whether we like it or not, we can NOT operate at the same level of high performance each and every time, we are prone to fatigue/boredom/sickness/etc.
Additionally, life is not the same each and every day, sometimes it throws the translator few or many surprises.
All of that means that maintaining a "severe" output on a daily basis is nothing but a honey-dripping dream!
And, there is nothing called 'normal' translation, because if there is then what you are defending will necessarily be categorized as 'abnormal.' Translation is translation, if you ain't doing translation then you're doing something entirely different.
Lieven Malaise wrote:
Furthermore it is possible (for experienced translators at least) to reach speeds to 500 words per hour for 'normal' quality translations.
I will give you one better, when I was working via one online platform I hit twice that quota; however, I knew the then topic like the back of my hand and all work-related circumstances were optimum, still I felt the burnout after few hours at that pace. Hence, that is NOT something that can be done as a regular lifestyle profession-wise.
Any experienced translator knows that it's inevitable for them to, sooner or later, cross paths with terminology/structures whose research time can take up the worth of pages, and that they need to properly do the homework, no improvs, no workarounds. That can't be attained at the hands of an 8Kw/d producer, even when the product is that exotic type of 'translation' you're defending!
Frankly, if I'm a translation client, I would look over my shoulder if I'm expected to receive that exotic translation, and I would Kevlar-up if I'm told my translation is part or whole of an 8Kw/d process. But, maybe that's just me!
| | | | | Average daily capacity | Apr 28, 2022 |
Japanese to English: 5,000 words daily.
| | | | Jianrong Sun
Chiny
Local time: 11:16
Członek ProZ.com
od 2019
angielski > chiński
+ ...
| my point of view | Apr 28, 2022 |
I don't think there is any point in discussing this topic. In addition to personal factors, the average daily capacity for translation is closely related to the professional type of the original text and the quality requirements of the target document.
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